I was comparing their hitting stats. Obviously there's no way to compare their fielding. It was more to show that you don't have to be a great hitter AND fielder to make the Hall of Fame, since one of the above-knocks on Jeter was his fielding.
Registered User
I was comparing their hitting stats. Obviously there's no way to compare their fielding. It was more to show that you don't have to be a great hitter AND fielder to make the Hall of Fame, since one of the above-knocks on Jeter was his fielding.
Registered User
thou everybody will agree jeter isnt the best fielder, he has won a gold glove.
Unfortunately, the awards are more a popularity contest than a reflection of actual ability.
Here's the deal in 2004. Three SS's were better than Jeter statistically. Eckstienwith a .988 and 6 errors, Christian Guzman with a .983 and 12 errors, and Omar Vizquel with a .982 and 11 errors. Jeter got the Gold Glove with a .981 % and 13 errors. Here's a link for the 2004 fielding stats. I don't care about intangibles either, the biggest intangible here is a Yankee uniform in my opinion.http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/...ortByStat=FPCT
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Yeah, it is a bit more of a popularity contest than it ought to be, just like the All-Star games in all three major sports. But the fact is, he's a .314 hitter, and averages over 100 runs a season and 69 RBI's a year. If he retired NOW, no, he shouldn't make it, but five years down the road (when he approaches 3,000 hits, 1,500-1,600 runs, and 300 steals), assuming he doesn't have an epic meltdown or something, I fail to see how he doesn't get in eventually.
Certainly not first ballot. Maybe not for a long time. After all, first and second hitters are really underappreciated, unless you're talking about absolutely ridiculous players like Rickey Henderson. So I think it will be nice for a contact hitter to get in with maybe less than 250 career homers and barely 1,000 RBI's. The ability to get on base and score runs has apparently been forgotten about next to someone hitting 60 homers every season. But then, I'd rather see a walk, steal, sac bunt, and a sac fly to drive in a run then a 500 foot solo bomb, so I'm probably biased a little towards players who don't have power.
I agree on the aspect of power being overemphasized in Hall consideration. I also think that Jeter should get in as long as he gets the numbers elsewhere. I do not however like the fact that just being on the Yankees skews the voting so much in favor of a player. The Rizzuto example I threw out there a while ago wasn't meant to be anti-Yankee. It does show that it's easier to get in if you are a Yankee. Scooter had a .273 AVG., 1588 HITS, 239 doubles, 62 triples, 38 homeruns and 149 sb in 5816 AB. He fielded .968%, 263 errors, with 3220 po, 4666 A, in 8149 TC. Lets compare the Red Sox best known SS of that era. He played approximately 50% of his career at short so I guess that it's a pretty good comparison. Johnny Pesky (who I don't think should be in the Hall by the way, just here as a comparison.) hit .307, 1455 hits, 226 doubles, 50 triples, 17 HR and 53 sb in 4745 AB. He fielded .966 (combined between 3b and ss mostly), 178 errors, 1987 po, 3114 A, in 5279 TC. They are very comparable players who lost equal time in WW II. The difference is the uniform they wore. If they had each played on the others team Pesky would be in the hall and Rizzuto would be out. I also think that Pesky would have had far better career numbers had he played in New York rather than Boston. I also believe that Rizzuto would have performed at a lower level had he been in Boston. Just making the case that the uniform matters a lot in hall voting.
GOD
why do players have to hit 500 home runs. There are no rules on what people are eligable. they should look at who was a great ball player. not just stats but leadership and HEART
Okay then, let's put together a petition for Johnny Pesky. He's still a uniformed member of the Red Sox organization. If that isn't heart I don't know what is. How about Dave Kingman? his average sucked but he hit it and it was gone. If it wasn't for collusion on the part of MLB (A case he won in court) he'd have made it in. Edgar Martinez? probably not going unless it's via veterans commitee but he had heart. Much as it pains me to admit it Don Mattingly would have been in had it not been for injuries ( which is what bothers me about Puckett getting in. He may not have been a lock if he'd kept on playing, who knows?). Joe Jackson? he didn't play that series like he was trying to throw it. He actually tried to give the money to Comisky but was brushed off. Pete Rose? He played EVERY game like it was the last game of his career. He's out for what he did after he finished playing. Where's the justice in that? Jeter should NOT get in because he was the head Yankee. He should NOT get in because he had heart. He should get in only if he winds up as one of the best ever. That is what the hall was meant to be. It was not supposed to be for good players, it was not intended for the most popular players, it was reserved for the great ones.
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I'd have to say along with Kingman you gotta go with Bill Mazeroski as worst hall of famer ever.... One swing got him in there.
But defensively he was regarded as the best second baseman ever. Ozzie Smith wasn't exactly known for his bat either but he got in on the first ballot. I think that there should be a designation or special consideration for great fielders.
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