Even the Braves

[petrel]

Angels Win First Postseason Game in Extra Innings

Home Runs The Order of the Day; Tettlebach Double in Bottom of 10th Crucial

LOS ANGELES -- The Angels first postseason appearance was something to remember, a game ending with the Angels ahead 6-5 after 10 innings in front of 56,000 delirious West Coast fans.

The Angels started on the right track, establishing their dominance early with the long ball. Chris Bradley would put the Angels up 2-0 in the 1st inning with a home run to right, and would add a second home run in the bottom of the 3rd to extend the Angels lead to 3-0 after three innings.

All in all, it was a good day for Bradley, who finished 3-3 with four runs batted in, as he drove in a run in the bottom of the 5th with a double. "In Detroit, I've been waiting so long," said Bradley, formerly with the Tigers. "To be part of a championship run in my first year in L. A. is great."

The other Detroit player of note, Jim Proctor (27-5, 1.86 ERA), now in his first year in pinstripes, pitched five innings but gave up four runs, three of them earned. It was also Proctor's first postseason appearance.

However, the Yankees could also hit it deep. Bob Skinner hit a solo homer in the top of the 6th to close the gap, but the 36-year old Elston Howard, hitting just .203 this year, answered with a solo home run in the bottom of the 7th to put the Angels up 5-1.

The Angels, however, could not keep it up. With starting Angels pitcher Tom Parsons (19-5, 2.04 ERA) still on the mound in the top of the 8th, Bob Skiner hit another home run that drove three runs in and with reliever Timmy Willett (6-5, 6.07 ERA) on the mound, Roberto Clemente added a solo homerun of his own to tie the score at 5-5.

For a few moments, it looked like the Angels would be overcome. Hank Aaron doubled with two out in the bottom of the eighth, but he tried to stretch the hit to a triple and tripped between second and third. As Aaron looked up from his prone position, the throw was easily made to third and Aaron was tagged out. Aaron has been under criticism from the Los Angeles press for injuries that have occured every year since 1962 which take him out of the lineup for long periods of time.

The game would remain tied through nine innings, and in the bottom of the 10th, Dick Tettlebach, a 36-year old free agent who hit .302 this year, led off wth a double while pinch-hitting for Willett. Luis Aparicio would bunt Tettlebach to third and Gene Stephens would hit the game-winning single.

New York Yankees at Los Angeles Angels
October 12, 1965

                     1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 +  R  H  E
       Yankees (NYY) 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 4 0 0  5 10  0
        Angels (LAA) 2 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 0 1  6  8  0

NEW YORK             ab  h bb  r hr bi  k sb     avg
M. Graff (2B)         5  1  0  1  0  0  0  0    .299
J. Pagan (SS)         5  2  0  1  0  0  0  0    .306
B. Skinner (LF)       5  2  0  2  2  4  0  0    .328
R. Clemente (RF)      5  3  0  1  1  1  0  0    .300
G. Oliver (C)         4  0  0  0  0  0  2  0    .321
H. Killebrew (1B)     4  1  0  0  0  0  0  0    .275
S. Petty (CF)         2  0  0  0  0  0  1  0    .232
 D. Buford (P)        2  0  0  0  0  0  1  0    .327
A. Carey (3B)         4  1  0  0  0  0  0  0    .280
J. Proctor (P)        2  0  0  0  0  0  1  0    .160
 E. Bauta (P)         0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .000
 P. Ward (P)          1  0  0  0  0  0  1  0    .278
 J. Brady (P)         1  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .500
TOTALS               40 10  0  5  3  5  6  0

   2B:  H. Killebrew, R. Clemente
   HR:  R. Clemente, B. Skinner 2

        NEW YORK   ip  h bb hr  r er  k pit    ERA
      J. Proctor  5.0  4  1  2  4  3  4  71   1.86
        E. Bauta  2.0  1  0  1  1  1  2  27   2.32
        J. Brady  2.1  3  0  0  1  1  0  21   2.03
          TOTALS  9.1  8  1  3  6  5  6 119

LOS ANGELES          ab  h bb  r hr bi  k sb     avg
L. Aparicio (SS)      4  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .270
G. Stephens (RF)      5  2  0  2  0  1  1  0    .312
C. Bradley (1B)       3  3  0  2  2  4  0  0    .257
 H. Lange (P)         1  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .311
J. Kindall (2B)       4  0  0  0  0  0  2  0    .295
H. Aaron (CF)         3  1  1  0  0  0  0  0    .278
J. Durham (LF)        4  0  0  0  0  0  2  0    .314
T. Boling (3B)        4  0  0  0  0  0  1  0    .292
E. Howard (C)         4  1  0  1  1  1  0  0    .203
T. Parsons (P)        3  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .127
 T. Willett (P)       0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .500
 D. Tettelbach (P)    1  1  0  1  0  0  0  0    .299
TOTALS               36  8  1  6  3  6  6  0

   2B:  C. Bradley, H. Aaron, D. Tettelbach
   HR:  E. Howard, C. Bradley 2

     LOS ANGELES   ip  h bb hr  r er  k pit    ERA
      T. Parsons  7.1  8  0  2  4  4  5 111   2.04
      T. Willett  2.2  2  0  1  1  1  1  50   6.07
          TOTALS 10.0 10  0  3  5  5  6 161

     WP: T. Willett
     LP: J. Brady

     Temperature: 57F
     Wind: 6 MPH (right to left)
     Attendance: 56,000
     Time: 2:46

[petrel]

October 13, 1965

Cubs Hopeless Against Giants in Game Two, Fall 9-2

Newman Hurls No Hitter Until Seventh Inning

CHICAGO -- The Giants established their domination of the National League Championship Series earnly on, beating the Cubs 9-2 at Wrigley. The Giants have a 2-0 lead which they will take back to New York for Game 3.

Fred Newman (24-4, 2.22 ERA) had a very satisfying game, giving up a walk and no hits until the seventh inning when he gave up a home run to Ed Sadowski to put the first points on the scoreboard for the Cubs -- the problem was, the Giants were already ahead 9-0 by that point. It was a case of too little, too late.

The Giants struck early, scoring four runs off Tobias Watson (15-10, 3.39 ERA) in the top of the first. Earl Battey cleaned the basepaths with a three-run homer after Frank Thomas scored an RBI on a bases-loaded ground out.

As for the home team, those two hits in the seventh-inning: a single by Al Kaline followed by the home run by Sadowski would only be accompanied by one more Cubs hit. Sadowski himself had given up two passed balls as catcher.

The Giants would, however, score 17 hits, including a two-RBI homerun by Ken Boyer and a two-RBI Donn Clendenon triple in a five-run fifth inning. It would be all the Giants needed, and the Giants would leave an inning with the bases loaded twice. Clearly, the Giants had no lack of opportunity.

New York can clinch the National League Championship with a win at Game 3 in New York. If they do, it will be the Giants fifth straight National League pennant.

New York Giants at Chicago Cubs
October 13, 1965

                     1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 +  R  H  E
        Giants (NYG) 4 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 0    9 17  0
          Cubs (CHC) 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0    2  3  0

NEW YORK             ab  h bb  r hr bi  k sb     avg
C. Yastrzemski (LF)   5  3  1  2  0  0  1  0    .317
D. Clendenon (1B)     6  4  0  1  0  2  0  0    .318
F. Robinson (RF)      4  1  2  1  0  0  1  0    .326
B. Johnson (SS)       4  2  2  0  0  0  1  0    .346
F. Thomas (CF)        6  2  0  1  0  2  0  0    .282
E. Battey (C)         5  2  0  2  1  3  1  0    .350
K. Boyer (3B)         5  2  0  1  1  2  1  0    .265
J. O'Brien (2B)       5  1  0  1  0  0  0  0    .284
F. Newman (P)         4  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .135
 J. Amalfitano (P)    0  0  1  0  0  0  0  0    .306
 O. Pena (P)          0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .000
TOTALS               44 17  6  9  2  9  5  0

   2B:  D. Clendenon, J. O'Brien
   3B:  D. Clendenon
   HR:  E. Battey, K. Boyer

        NEW YORK   ip  h bb hr  r er  k pit    ERA
       F. Newman  8.0  2  1  1  2  2  5  90   2.22
         O. Pena  1.0  1  0  0  0  0  0  16   3.05
          TOTALS  9.0  3  1  1  2  2  5 106

CHICAGO              ab  h bb  r hr bi  k sb     avg
R. Regalado (3B)      4  1  0  0  0  0  0  0    .316
S. Palys (LF)         4  0  0  0  0  0  1  0    .277
H. Agganis (1B)       4  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .300
A. Kaline (CF)        4  1  0  1  0  0  0  0    .286
E. Sadowski (C)       3  1  0  1  1  2  2  0    .252
L. Thomas (RF)        2  0  1  0  0  0  0  0    .230
D. Williams (2B)      3  0  0  0  0  0  1  0    .260
J. Gotay (SS)         3  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .237
T. Watson (P)         0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .075
 G. Harris (P)        1  0  0  0  0  0  1  0    .262
 E. Durant (P)        0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .143
 W. Nixon (P)         1  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .149
 B. Skowron (P)       1  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .373
 L. Johnson (P)       0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .000
TOTALS               30  3  1  2  1  2  5  0

   HR:  E. Sadowski

         CHICAGO   ip  h bb hr  r er  k pit    ERA
       T. Watson  3.0  5  2  1  4  4  2  78   3.39
       E. Durant  1.2  7  2  1  5  5  0  69   3.16
        W. Nixon  3.1  3  1  0  0  0  2  68   4.10
      L. Johnson  1.0  2  1  0  0  0  1  27   4.66
          TOTALS  9.0 17  6  2  9  9  5 242

     WP: F. Newman
     LP: T. Watson

     Temperature: 54F
     Wind: 7 MPH (in from left)
     Attendance: 36,644
     Time: 3:55

[petrel]

October 13, 1965

Yanks Come From Behind on Killebrew Homer in 5-4 Angels Loss

Willet Blows Save on Fourth Pitch of Game; Angels Manager May Given the Thumb in First Inning

LOS ANGELES -- It looked as if the Angels would hang on to a 5-1 lead, but they learned that the Yanks could never be counted out of a game as long as they held a bat. The Yanks, winners of 131 regular season games, won on a homer to edge the Angels 5-4 at Chavez Ravine.

The Yankees were the first team to score on a Roberto Clemente triple to right off Angels starter Mike McCormick (11-7, 3.23 ERA), bringing in Jose Pagan. Pagan had earlier stole third on a bad call from Umpire Sam Cerrigan that brought Angels Manager Merritt May out of the dugout to argue. Coach Marv Grisson would take over for May for the rest of the game as Cerrigan thumbed May out of the game.

In the bottom of the fifth, the Angels would take the lead, as Todd Boling homered off the Yankee's Marshall Renfroe (25-7, 2.95 ERA) after a Joe Durham double to set the score at 2-1 Angels. And in the sixth, with two out and Jerry Kindall on first, Hank Aaron would hit his first postseason home run since the 1960 World Series to put the Angels up 4-1.

McCormick, however, would falter in the top of the eighth, giving up a walk to Don Buford, a double to Roberto Clemente and a single to Gene Oliver over the head of Angels third baseman Todd Boling to close the gap to 4-3 Angels.

Timmy Willett (6-5, 6.07 ERA) was called in for his second attempt to save the game for the Angels, but he would end the game with his second blown save. On a 2-1 pitch, Harmon Killebrew of the Yankees would send Willet's fastball somewhere into the Pacific and the Yanks would take a 5-4 lead that they would never relenquish as Jim Brady (9-2, 2.03 ERA, 8 saves) would come in for New York and pitch two perfect final innings.

The Angels travel to New York and all further games of the series, tied 1-1, will be played at Yankee Stadium.

New York Yankees at Los Angeles Angels
October 13, 1965

                     1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 +  R  H  E
       Yankees (NYY) 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 0    5  8  0
        Angels (LAA) 0 0 0 0 2 2 0 0 0    4  8  0

NEW YORK             ab  h bb  r hr bi  k sb     avg
J. Ward (2B)          4  1  0  0  0  0  1  0    .280
 L. Maye (P)          1  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .392
 M. Graff (P)         0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .299
J. Pagan (SS)         5  1  0  1  0  0  1  1    .306
D. Buford (LF)        4  0  1  1  0  0  1  0    .327
R. Clemente (RF)      4  2  1  1  0  1  0  0    .300
G. Oliver (C)         5  1  0  1  0  2  1  0    .321
H. Killebrew (1B)     4  2  0  1  1  2  1  0    .275
S. Petty (CF)         4  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .232
A. Carey (3B)         3  1  1  0  0  0  0  0    .280
M. Renfroe (P)        2  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .136
 E. Bauta (P)         0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .000
 B. Skinner (P)       1  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .328
 E. Rakow (P)         0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .333
 P. Ward (P)          0  0  1  0  0  0  0  0    .278
 J. Brady (P)         0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .500
TOTALS               37  8  4  5  1  5  5  1

   2B:  H. Killebrew, J. Ward, J. Pagan, R. Clemente
   3B:  R. Clemente
   HR:  H. Killebrew

        NEW YORK   ip  h bb hr  r er  k pit    ERA
      M. Renfroe  5.2  7  1  2  4  4  1  61   2.95
        E. Bauta  0.1  0  0  0  0  0  0   2   2.32
        E. Rakow  1.0  1  0  0  0  0  0  10   2.40
        J. Brady  2.0  0  0  0  0  0  0  18   2.03
          TOTALS  9.0  8  1  2  4  4  1  91

LOS ANGELES          ab  h bb  r hr bi  k sb     avg
L. Aparicio (SS)      4  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .270
G. Stephens (RF)      4  0  0  0  0  0  1  0    .312
C. Bradley (1B)       3  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .257
 H. Lange (P)         1  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .311
J. Kindall (2B)       3  1  1  1  0  0  0  0    .295
H. Aaron (CF)         4  3  0  1  1  2  0  0    .278
J. Durham (LF)        4  2  0  1  0  0  0  0    .314
T. Boling (3B)        3  1  0  1  1  2  0  0    .292
E. Howard (C)         3  1  0  0  0  0  0  0    .203
M. McCormick (P)      3  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .154
 T. Willett (P)       0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .500
TOTALS               32  8  1  4  2  4  1  0

   2B:  J. Durham, H. Aaron
   HR:  T. Boling, H. Aaron

     LOS ANGELES   ip  h bb hr  r er  k pit    ERA
    M. McCormick  7.1  7  1  0  4  4  4 119   3.23
      T. Willett  1.2  1  3  1  1  1  1  42   6.07
          TOTALS  9.0  8  4  1  5  5  5 161

     WP: E. Rakow
     LP: T. Willett
     SV: J. Brady

     Temperature: 59F
     Wind: 2 MPH (out to left)
     Attendance: 56,000
     Time: 2:45

[petrel]

October 15, 1965

Giants Sweep Cubs in National League Series With 4-2 Home Win

Fifth Straight League Title is National League Record

QUEENS, NEW YORK -- No team in the National League East had been able to figure out the New York Giants, and now, the Chicago Cubs, National League West champions, have an entire season to scratch their heads as they fell to the Giants in New York, 4-2.

The win gives New York its fifth straight National League Championship. The Giants will play the winner of the Yankees/Angels series for baseball's World Series title.

John Fitzgerald (21-9, 2.36 ERA), on the mound for the Giants, worked his "Eephus" pitch all day, avoiding throwing anything that the Cubs could hit, painting the corners. As for the Cubs, they started Japanese left hander Mukisa Sato (13-9, 3.71 ERA) who was determined to throw his fastball right by the Giants.

The Giants would score first in the bottom of the third with a run off of a Donn Clendenon double that drove Carl Yastrzemski home and put the Giants up 1-0. Even then, however, the Giants noted how fast Sato was throwing.

"He was giving it all he had," said Carl Yastrzemski. "I don't think I've ever seen anyone throw as fast as I've seen Sato throw today. And I've seen Hall of Fame pitching. If there was a Hall of Fame for a fastball, his would be in there."

It was up to the Cubs to catch up with Al Kaline walking in the fourth, and then stealing a base. It was only the second time that Kaline had stolen a base in the postseason. Ed Sadowski would walk, and then both Lee Thomas and Davey Williams would single, with each hit scoring a Cubs run, putting the Cubs up 2-1.

The Giants tried to catch up in the bottom of the fourth, and Earl Battey managed to triple off Sato. Ken Boyer walked, but was gunned down by Earl Battely in an attempt to take second against the Giants catcher.

"He was getting faster and faster and faster", said Sam Mele, "but we were fouling off a lot of pitches and sometimes he didn't have much control to go with that speed. He didn't give too many free passes but he was throwing a ton of heat out there. We were afraid he was going to hurt himself."

Sato was clearly exhausted by the top of the eighth. The first two Giants batters grounded out, but Bob Johnson walked on four straight pitches. Cubs Manager Bob Kennedy came out and Sato handed him the ball after throwing 160 or so pitches.

Bob Dubila (6-5, 3.41 ERA, 13 saves) came in to relieve Sato and the Giants must have smiled and relaxed. Frank Thomas then singled off Duliba and with two men on base, Earl Battey homered just to the right of the foul pole in left field for a 3-RBI round tripper that put the Giants up 4-2 as the crowded roared its pleasure in the bottom of the eighth.

This left the top of the ninth, with Jack Lamabe (4-2, 2.41 ERA) to start what he had finished in the eighth inning. And he was ready to provide a dramatic finale of his own, striking out Al Kaline, Ed Sadowski and Lee Thomas in order to clinch the National League Championship for the home team.

Mukisa Sato had thrown nine strikeouts in 7 2/3 innings, but the Giants were just too much for the Cubs to overcome. Bill Kirk, who threw a 4-0 shutout of the Cubs in Game 1, was named National League Championship Series Most Valuable Player.

Chicago Cubs at New York Giants
October 15, 1965

                     1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 +  R  H  E
          Cubs (CHC) 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0    2  4  0
        Giants (NYG) 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 3 x    4  9  0

CHICAGO              ab  h bb  r hr bi  k sb     avg
R. Regalado (3B)      4  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .316
S. Palys (LF)         4  0  0  0  0  0  1  0    .277
H. Agganis (1B)       4  1  0  0  0  0  0  0    .300
A. Kaline (CF)        3  0  1  1  0  0  1  1    .286
E. Sadowski (C)       3  0  1  1  0  0  1  0    .252
L. Thomas (RF)        4  1  0  0  0  1  2  0    .230
D. Williams (2B)      3  1  0  0  0  1  1  0    .260
J. Gotay (SS)         3  1  0  0  0  0  0  0    .237
M. Sato (P)           2  0  0  0  0  0  2  0    .119
 B. Duliba (P)        0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .000
TOTALS               30  4  2  2  0  2  8  1


         CHICAGO   ip  h bb hr  r er  k pit    ERA
         M. Sato  7.2  7  2  0  2  2  9 162   3.71
       B. Duliba  0.1  2  0  1  2  2  0  12   3.41
          TOTALS  8.0  9  2  1  4  4  9 174

NEW YORK             ab  h bb  r hr bi  k sb     avg
C. Yastrzemski (LF)   4  1  0  1  0  0  1  0    .317
D. Clendenon (1B)     4  1  0  0  0  1  1  0    .318
 D. Phillips (P)      0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .200
F. Robinson (RF)      4  0  0  0  0  0  1  0    .326
B. Johnson (SS)       3  1  1  1  0  0  1  1    .346
F. Thomas (CF)        4  2  0  1  0  0  1  0    .282
E. Battey (C)         4  2  0  1  1  3  1  0    .350
K. Boyer (3B)         3  0  1  0  0  0  1  0    .265
J. O'Brien (2B)       3  1  0  0  0  0  1  0    .284
J. Fitzgerald (P)     2  0  0  0  0  0  1  0    .043
 J. Hall (P)          1  1  0  0  0  0  0  0    .221
 J. Lamabe (P)        0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .000
TOTALS               32  9  2  4  1  4  9  1

   2B:  D. Clendenon
   3B:  E. Battey
   HR:  E. Battey

        NEW YORK   ip  h bb hr  r er  k pit    ERA
   J. Fitzgerald  7.0  4  2  0  2  2  4  83   2.36
       J. Lamabe  2.0  0  0  0  0  0  4  22   2.41
          TOTALS  9.0  4  2  0  2  2  8 105

     WP: J. Lamabe
     LP: B. Duliba

     Temperature: 39F
     Wind: 7 MPH (in from right)
     Attendance: 55,000
     Time: 2:47

[petrel]

October 15th, 1965

Yankees Win Game 3 of American League Playoffs With Seven-Run Inning

Yanks Go Through Four Pitchers at Sellout Yankee Stadium Crowd

BRONX, NEW YORK: The Yankees quest for a seventh straight American League championship came one step closer to reality with seven runs scored in the sixth inning as the Yankees cruised to a 9-4 victory in Game 3 of the American League Championship Series. They only need one more win for the title.

With Joey Jay (15-11, 4.26 ERA) starting for the Angels, Milt Graff led off with a double in the bottom of the first, and Bob Skinner singled to center, driving a run in and putting the first Yankee run on the scoreboard, giving the Yanks a 1-0 lead. However, the Angels would get three hits off Yankees starter Ralph Terry (17-2, 3.15 ERA) to drive in one run and a long fly ball from Elston Howard allowed Joe Durham to tag up and give the Angels a 2-1 lead.

The Angels would take advantage of a fielding error by Milt Graff in the sixth. Graff, playing second base since the injury of Johnny Temple, made a bad throw that ended with Graff being charged with an error and Jerry Kindall at first. Hank Aaron would then double and Joe Durham would single both runs in to give the Angels a 4-1 lead.

But it all fell apart in the sixth inning. The Yankees would score seven runs, and the most dramatic hit being a triple by Roberto Clemente to end the rally. During the seven-run onslaught, the Angels had no luck, bringing in Britt Hoad (4-2, 3.89 ERA) -- who immediately threw a wild pitch to allow one of those runs to score.

Leading 8-4 after six, the Yankees would give up a run in the seventh off Ed Bauta (6-4, 2.32 ERA) , who gave up two singles and a walk, allowing Jerry Kindall to hit a sac fly to left with the bases loaded to close the gap to 8-5 Yankees. But in the bottom of the eighth, a Bob Skinner RBI double would add another Yankees run, and Jim Brady (9-2, 2.03, 8 saves) would close out the final inning.

Los Angeles Angels at New York Yankees
October 15, 1965

                     1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 +  R  H  E
        Angels (LAA) 0 2 0 0 0 2 1 0 0    5  9  0
       Yankees (NYY) 1 0 0 0 0 7 0 1 x    9 13  0

LOS ANGELES          ab  h bb  r hr bi  k sb     avg
L. Aparicio (SS)      5  1  0  0  0  0  0  0    .270
G. Stephens (RF)      5  1  0  0  0  0  3  0    .312
C. Bradley (1B)       3  1  1  0  0  0  0  0    .257
J. Kindall (2B)       3  0  0  1  0  1  1  0    .295
H. Aaron (CF)         4  2  0  2  0  0  0  0    .278
J. Durham (LF)        4  2  0  1  0  3  0  1    .314
T. Boling (3B)        4  1  0  0  0  0  3  0    .292
E. Howard (C)         3  0  0  0  0  1  1  0    .203
J. Jay (P)            2  0  0  0  0  0  1  0    .099
 B. Hoad (P)          0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .000
 M. Throneberry (P)   1  1  0  1  0  0  0  0    .231
 H. Robinson (P)      0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .000
 D. Tettelbach (P)    1  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .299
TOTALS               35  9  1  5  0  5  9  1

   2B:  H. Aaron 2

     LOS ANGELES   ip  h bb hr  r er  k pit    ERA
          J. Jay  5.1  6  6  0  5  5  5 143   4.26
         B. Hoad  0.2  3  1  0  3  3  1  32   3.89
     H. Robinson  2.0  4  1  0  1  1  1  45   4.39
          TOTALS  8.0 13  8  0  9  9  7 220

NEW YORK             ab  h bb  r hr bi  k sb     avg
M. Graff (2B)         5  3  0  3  0  0  0  0    .299
J. Pagan (SS)         3  0  2  1  0  0  1  0    .306
B. Skinner (LF)       4  2  0  0  0  3  0  0    .328
R. Clemente (RF)      3  1  2  0  0  2  1  0    .300
G. Oliver (C)         4  2  1  1  0  0  1  0    .321
H. Killebrew (1B)     4  2  1  1  0  1  2  0    .275
S. Petty (CF)         3  0  1  1  0  0  1  0    .232
A. Carey (3B)         3  1  1  1  0  1  1  0    .280
R. Terry (P)          1  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .270
 D. Buford (P)        1  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .327
 E. Rakow (P)         0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .333
 P. Ward (P)          1  1  0  1  0  2  0  0    .278
 E. Bauta (P)         0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .000
 L. Maye (P)          1  1  0  0  0  0  0  0    .392
 J. Brady (P)         0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .500
TOTALS               33 13  8  9  0  9  7  0

   2B:  G. Oliver, A. Carey, M. Graff, B. Skinner
   3B:  R. Clemente

        NEW YORK   ip  h bb hr  r er  k pit    ERA
        R. Terry  4.0  4  0  0  2  2  5  65   3.15
        E. Rakow  2.0  3  0  0  2  1  3  37   2.40
        E. Bauta  2.0  2  1  0  1  1  1  29   2.32
        J. Brady  1.0  0  0  0  0  0  0   9   2.03
          TOTALS  9.0  9  1  0  5  4  9 140

     WP: E. Rakow
     LP: J. Jay

     Temperature: 47F
     Wind: 3 MPH (out to right)
     Attendance: 67,000
     Time: 3:45

[petrel]

October 16, 1965

Yanks Take Lead in Bottom of Ninth on Carey Single; Win Seventh Straight Pennant

Will Face Giants in Series; Giants Have Home Field Advantage

BRONX, NEW YORK -- The New York Yankees continue their seven-year dominance of the American League with a 3-2 win over the visiting Los Angeles Angels. It is a seventh straight pennant for the Yankees, a record, and their fifth straight World Series matchup against the New York Giants is also a record.

The Yankees clinched at home by a single by Andy Carey in the bottom of the ninth with the score tied 2-2, the bases loaded, and one out. Carey has had his best postseason ever, hitting .357 over the American League Championship Series against the Angels.

Starters for Game 4 were the same starters as Game 1: Jim Proctor of the Yankees (27-5, 1.86 ERA) and Tom Parsons of the Angels (19-5, 2.04 ERA). The game would remain scoreless until the third when Luis Aparicio, second with steals in the AL with 29, singled and stole a base, giving Gene Stephens a chance to single along the first base line and for Aparicio to score from second, giving the Angels a 1-0 lead.

The score would remain 1-0 Angels through seven innings. In the top of the eighth, the Angels would add to their lead by leading off the eighth with a Gene Stephens triple off Proctor. Hank Aaron would hit a double to bring Stephens in and the Angels now led by two.

The Yankees struck back in the bottom of the eighth. With two outs in the bottom of the eight, Don Buford would hit a home run off Parsons to close the gap to 2-1 Angels, setting up a dramatic ninth inning conclusion.

In the top of the ninth, Jim Brady (9-2, 2.03 ERA) kept the Angels from getting on base. This led Angels manager Merritt May to make the decision to go to Hal Woodeshick (3-4, 1.80 ERA, 36 saves), the man who had saved more games than any other major leaguer in 1965. Carroll Hardy came in as a defensive replacement in 1965.

A summary of the bottom of the ninth. Skinner singled. Clemente struck out. Skinner stole second. Oliver singled for the first run. Killebrew walked. Petty singled. And Carey singled in the winning run.

Final line for Woodeshick: 4 H, 1 BB, 2 ER. All in 1/3 of an inning. For the Angels, it was the end of the faint championship dream sparked after a Game 1 victory in extra innings. For the Angels, it's "wait 'til next year".

Los Angeles Angels at New York Yankees
October 16, 1965

                     1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 +  R  H  E
        Angels (LAA) 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0    2  8  0
       Yankees (NYY) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 2    3 10  0

LOS ANGELES          ab  h bb  r hr bi  k sb     avg
L. Aparicio (SS)      4  2  0  1  0  0  0  1    .270
G. Stephens (RF)      4  2  0  1  0  1  0  0    .312
C. Bradley (1B)       3  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .257
 H. Lange (P)         1  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .311
J. Kindall (2B)       4  2  0  0  0  0  1  0    .295
H. Aaron (CF)         4  1  0  0  0  1  1  0    .278
J. Durham (LF)        4  0  0  0  0  0  1  0    .314
 C. Hardy (P)         0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .208
T. Boling (3B)        4  1  0  0  0  0  0  0    .292
E. Howard (C)         4  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .203
T. Parsons (P)        2  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .127
 D. Tettelbach (P)    1  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .299
 H. Woodeshick (P)    0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .000
TOTALS               35  8  0  2  0  2  3  1

   2B:  H. Aaron
   3B:  G. Stephens

     LOS ANGELES   ip  h bb hr  r er  k pit    ERA
      T. Parsons  8.0  6  0  1  1  1  5  99   2.04
   H. Woodeshick  0.1  4  1  0  2  2  1  30   1.80
          TOTALS  8.1 10  1  1  3  3  6 129

NEW YORK             ab  h bb  r hr bi  k sb     avg
M. Graff (2B)         2  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .299
 D. Buford (P)        2  1  0  1  1  1  0  0    .327
J. Pagan (SS)         4  1  0  0  0  0  1  0    .306
B. Skinner (LF)       4  1  0  1  0  0  1  1    .328
R. Clemente (RF)      4  2  0  0  0  0  1  0    .300
G. Oliver (C)         4  2  0  1  0  1  0  0    .321
H. Killebrew (1B)     3  0  1  0  0  0  0  0    .275
S. Petty (CF)         4  1  0  0  0  0  1  0    .232
A. Carey (3B)         4  2  0  0  0  1  1  0    .280
J. Proctor (P)        2  0  0  0  0  0  1  0    .160
 P. Ward (P)          1  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .278
 J. Brady (P)         0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0    .500
TOTALS               34 10  1  3  1  3  6  1

   2B:  G. Oliver, A. Carey
   HR:  D. Buford

        NEW YORK   ip  h bb hr  r er  k pit    ERA
      J. Proctor  8.0  8  0  0  2  2  3  84   1.86
        J. Brady  1.0  0  0  0  0  0  0   8   2.03
          TOTALS  9.0  8  0  0  2  2  3  92

     WP: J. Brady
     LP: H. Woodeshick

     Temperature: 44F
     Wind: 6 MPH (right to left)
     Attendance: 67,000
     Time: 2:26

[CatKnight]

Alright, this Giant/Yankee thing is starting to bother me.

Why would you say they're so dominant year after year? Is it that their revenue is so high they can replenish any losses? Are their rosters just not changing and filled with elite players?

[petrel]

CatKnight,

I thought I knew was the solution was to the problem: that the poorest teams just weren't spending enough money, and that large markets had a chokehold on the process, basically guaranteeing that no small market team could ever win if the computer ran it and that these tendencies would continually reinforce each other, so that one would end up with a few superteams dominating the league and a few teams like the 1899 Cleveland Spiders, who are superbad teams in terms of ineptitude.

So I decided to apply the idea of Marginal Payroll/Marginal Win to the ETB Universe. To repeat for those who didn't read your great 1901 thread (and I suggest everyone read it!), I'll lay out the idea.

A team of "replacement level" players -- guys getting the league minimum of $327,000, picked up from free agency, the high minors and the waiver wire, should probably be able to field a team with a .300 winning percentage -- a generous 48 games won a year in a 162 game season.

It would put $9,156,000 to put together a team of 28 such players -- enough to fill all the roster spots in Mogul, plus two or three minor leagues in case someone gets hurt. The idea of Marginal Payroll/Marginal Win asks the question, "beyond this .300 win percentage, and beyond this absolute $9 million minimum cost, how much are your wins costing you?"

The formula is:

(club payroll - (28 x league minimum payroll))/((winning percentage - .300) x 140))

You can then compare teams with their "marginal payroll" (MP), which tells how much each win above .300 costs, with their winning percentage which is based on number of wins.

Teams then fall into four categories:

1. Low MP/High Win Total -- an efficiently run ballclub.
2. Low MP/Low Win Total -- a team that isn't spending enough to compete
3. High MP/High Win Total -- a team that spends its way to the top
4. High MP/Low Win Total -- a poorly run ballclub

I applied this to the results in 1965. What I expeted were a lot of teams in Category #2 and Category #3. The Athletics and Brewers would be Category #2 teams -- if they had more cash, they could compete. And I expected the Giants and Yankees to be Category #3 teams, those that literally bought their pennants.

Here are the results:



Category #1, "Efficiently run clubs" -- Braves, Phillies, Cubs, Giants, Red Sox
Category #2, "Not spending enough" -- Stars
Category #3, "Spending way to top" -- no clubs
Category #4, "Poorly run clubs" -- Peaches, Athletics, Indians, Pirates, Twins, Reds, Brewers

Not what I thought. This sort of implies that even if you gave the Athletics or Brewers more money, they'd just spend it in bad ways. The Peaches and A's are so bad with money that they actually break the lightspeed barrier and get a negative marginal payroll/marginal win -- as those two teams couldn't even reach a .300 winning percentage!!

I was initially under the impression that computer operated teams changed their GM strategies if they had five successful years. One thing that the Yankees and Giants can do that other teams can't is lock up superstars with long contracts -- both clubs have very high average contract ratings.

Like any new commissioner, I'd be hesitant to introduce a revenue sharing system unless I was sure that it would succeed. The above suggests that it wouldn't. Either the concept of marginal payroll/marginal wins is wrong (which leaves me just guessing), or it's right, which means that revenue sharing wouldn't change a thing. It might bring the Yankees and Giants closer to realistic win totals but it wouldn't help the really bad teams.

This problem will not be easy to solve.

--Pet

[CatKnight]

Huh. You know, I was preparing to debate the point with you and argue that being efficient didn't mean the two New York teams didn't buy their pennants..but I just completed my analysis.



Columns B, C and D are historical for this timeline. Payroll and Cost/Win are straight from your post. Projected wins consists of Payroll/Cost per win, plus 42 games (.300 percentage). Any discrepancies are due to rounding errors - it should be in the right league.

For Columns F, G and H I took a friend's suggestion for the real MLB and imposed a $1 for $1 payroll tax for anything over 150% of the league average. I then redistributed this money proportionally to those clubs who didn't make 75% of the average. I assumed the same efficiency from the GMs and ran the numbers.

Only the Stars (bolded) changed rankings.

EDIT: I used 42 games instead of 48.6 (49) as the 30% mark... but the general numbers shouldn't change.

As you say, it would bring the New York clubs back to human levels... but it doesn't really close the gap.

I want to say that, even so, a poorer team with more money might be able to use it to steal stars away from the New York clubs... but it looks like it would take something draconian for that to work.

[moneyp]

I simmed a few seasons in the 2007 using a revenue sharing model, just to see if it would work. It doesn't. It keeps the New York Giants and Yankees from dominating, but the moment they poke their head above water, they start spending like crazy again. The worst part is that free agents will wait around until June or even later to get megabuck contracts from these teams. I think the Senators even signed some free agents in September at one point.

The 2008 game, with it's escalating salary structure, is much better in this regard. The salaries are so low (in the early years) that other teams keep their free agents and very few actually hit the market.

[petrel]

moneyp,

Maybe that's the solution. My plan was after the 1965 Series to transfer the whole kit-n-kaboodle over to Mogul 2008. I've always done this is as a matter of course; I started the dynasty in Mogul 06.

But if BM08 has this problem worked out, then I might give the new system a chance to solve the problem.

--Pet

[moneyp]

moneyp,

Maybe that's the solution. My plan was after the 1965 Series to transfer the whole kit-n-kaboodle over to Mogul 2008. I've always done this is as a matter of course; I started the dynasty in Mogul 06.

But if BM08 has this problem worked out, then I might give the new system a chance to solve the problem.

--Pet

The salary structure is way different. I don't know what it would do to your game. I'll sim some seasons in the 60s in 2007 and transfer them to 2008 to see what happens.

In any case, to further expand on the revenue sharing thing, I did it differently than CatKnight. I based it on revenue 120% over the average and distributed to teams under the median (but only up to the median). I should take a crack at CK's system and see how that works out. The contributing teams were always the New York Giants, New York Highlanders and Washington Senators, and in a sixteen team league they were putting back and average of $70-80 million back into the pool, and regularly falling $15 million into debt at the start of every season (because they spend like crazy if they have any money). This did keep poor teams out of the gutter, and often contending for the title. The worst team in my simming was Brooklyn, who had good revenue, but they regularly outspent it.

I guess an easy artificial way to impose a "cap" would be stadium seats?. You could lower them for the Giants/Yankees, which might decrease their expected revenue and limit whatever algorithm it is that causes them to go nuts. I'll give that a shot as well.

[moneyp]

Transferring the file from '07 to '08 doesn't auto-adjust the numbers. You can do a calculate salaries and that will bring it back to 1965 levels, though (same contract lengths).

Team starting cash is still in the millions, though, so you'd need to manually adjust that.

[moneyp]

More:

My "seating cap" idea works pretty well. Moving the seating up and down curbs and/or raises team spending. The NYG fell from first to fifth one year.

The only problem is that Baseball Mogul resets the seating to original levels when you move from one year to the next, so unless you want to remember what you had their seating at the year before, it's kind of a pain. I don't know what the purpose of the Stadium Editor is if it doesn't save the changes from one year to the next.

[petrel]

moneyp,

More on salary caps later, as I'm at work (although I'm on lunch break).

In order to keep the stadium seating caps, one would need to go to the
NewGameStadiums.csv file which is probably somewhere in Baseball 2008's Input folder. This file controls what teams are in the league, when they move, and what their stadiums are like.

Therefore, you'd have to edit the fields. I am not recommending you do this, but if you decided to hack NewGameStadiums.csv, then I strongly suggest you copy the original somewhere for safe keeping.

--Pet