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Thread: 10.24 Pitcher scoring bugs (Earned vs unearned runs, Wins, Saves) [Improved 10.25]

  1. #1
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    10.24 Pitcher scoring bugs (Earned vs unearned runs, Wins, Saves) [Improved 10.25]

    Not sure if this is a bug but it is very annoying.

    Looking at the box scores after a game I noticed my closer was used in the eigth and ninth innings and held the two run lead. The starting pitcher got the win, the closer DID NOT get the save. This has happened at least twice so far in my first season with SM05.

    okay, that's one...

    In another game the closer was brought in with runners on 1st and 2nd with two outs in the eigth inning and his team leading by one run. He gives up a two run double...okay a blown save.. He then retires the next batter to end the inning. Low and behold the box score gives him the loss, as does his roster page. tsk tsk It was the inherited runners that scored, not his lone runner. The pitcher who put the two men on base, obviously, should have been given the loss.

    The above 'errors' were also in versions for 2003 and 2004..

    Additionally, in at least three games the starter left with the lead. Two innings later the relievers lost that lead, but guess who got the loss...yep..the starting pitcher who left two inning earlier with a three run, or more, lead.

    I understand that programming a stat intensive game can be a challenge, even for those with loads of experience doing it. But com'on..these are BASIC to pitching stats in-so-far as win/loss/save/blown saves go.

    Otherwise I give SM05 a solid 80 out of a possible 100.

    Ken

  2. #2
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    Re: WP Assignments

    Originally posted by Ken Moore

    In another game the closer was brought in with runners on 1st and 2nd with two outs in the eigth inning and his team leading by one run. He gives up a two run double...okay a blown save.. He then retires the next batter to end the inning. Low and behold the box score gives him the loss, as does his roster page. tsk tsk It was the inherited runners that scored, not his lone runner. The pitcher who put the two men on base, obviously, should have been given the loss.
    In that situation, the reliever who gave up the run is given the loss, as he is the one who gave up the winning run. The other errors in the game are errors, but this isn't, it's a rule in the MLB.
    GO YANKEES!

  3. #3
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    I beg to differ on that...the runners on the bases are the sole responsibility of the pitcher that put them there..not the reliever or any previous pitcher. Therefore, if Joe Starter left the game with runners on say first and second and then the reliever John Camelately gives up a home run..the reliever is charged with only ONE run while the starter is charged with the TWO runs. That is the rule in MLB.

    Lets say for the sake of argument that the starter left the game with a 2-1 lead.

    The reliever comes in with two runners on and gives up the home run. Here is how the runs are charged:

    The starter is charge with 3 runs; the previous run PLUS the two runners that were on base when he left;

    The reliever is charged with 1 run. The batter that hit the home run.

    Moreover, lets say those were the only runs scored for the remainder of the game for either team. That is to say Joe Starter's team lost the game 4-2.

    The winning run was the responsibility of the STARTER, not the Reliever and therefore the STARTER is tagged with the loss. At worse, the reliever gets a blown save (depending on when in the game he came in).

    It is NOT who is pitching when the winning run is scored necessarily, it is WHO is responsible for the runner who crossed the plate with the eventual winning run.

    This is one of the reasons (other than agents wanting to jack up the salary requests for their clients) the 'Inherited Runner' stat has reared its ugly head in the MLB. Because, a reliever can let a tying run, or even a go ahead run score and eventually get the win if his team comes back to win the game. The agents feel that if their client (a reliever) can keep inherited runners from scoring, the pitcher is more valuable and thereby deserves a higher salary.

    If I could find my MLB rulebook I could give you page, paragraph, section, subsection that pertains to this instance. But, alas, it is somewhere buried deep in the piles of mags, books, paper, wrappers, dirty plates and such in this computer room.

    All the best,
    Ken

  4. #4
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    http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/of..._scorer_10.jsp

    You can find the relevant stuff under 10.19(e)

  5. #5
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    I should quickly add that as for the Closer not getting credit for a save when he should have, the game made up for it the following year..the very same Closer not only got the save, but the win; in the same game.

    Now that is real nifty! Not right of course, but nifty all the same.


    Ken

  6. #6
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    Originally posted by Ken Moore
    I beg to differ on that...the runners on the bases are the sole responsibility of the pitcher that put them there..not the reliever or any previous pitcher. Therefore, if Joe Starter left the game with runners on say first and second and then the reliever John Camelately gives up a home run..the reliever is charged with only ONE run while the starter is charged with the TWO runs. That is the rule in MLB.

    Lets say for the sake of argument that the starter left the game with a 2-1 lead.

    The reliever comes in with two runners on and gives up the home run. Here is how the runs are charged:

    The starter is charge with 3 runs; the previous run PLUS the two runners that were on base when he left;

    The reliever is charged with 1 run. The batter that hit the home run.

    Moreover, lets say those were the only runs scored for the remainder of the game for either team. That is to say Joe Starter's team lost the game 4-2.

    The winning run was the responsibility of the STARTER, not the Reliever and therefore the STARTER is tagged with the loss. At worse, the reliever gets a blown save (depending on when in the game he came in).

    It is NOT who is pitching when the winning run is scored necessarily, it is WHO is responsible for the runner who crossed the plate with the eventual winning run.

    This is one of the reasons (other than agents wanting to jack up the salary requests for their clients) the 'Inherited Runner' stat has reared its ugly head in the MLB. Because, a reliever can let a tying run, or even a go ahead run score and eventually get the win if his team comes back to win the game. The agents feel that if their client (a reliever) can keep inherited runners from scoring, the pitcher is more valuable and thereby deserves a higher salary.

    If I could find my MLB rulebook I could give you page, paragraph, section, subsection that pertains to this instance. But, alas, it is somewhere buried deep in the piles of mags, books, paper, wrappers, dirty plates and such in this computer room.

    All the best,
    Ken
    The starter is charged with the runs, yes, but I BELIEVE the is reliever gets the loss.
    GO YANKEES!

  7. #7
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    Originally posted by goyanks225
    The starter is charged with the runs, yes, but I BELIEVE the is reliever gets the loss.
    Naah, check the official rules in the link above. The starting pitcher will be the loser unless his team can come back to tie it or take the lead at which point he would be off the hook.

  8. #8
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    Thanks for the link Vale..much appreicated.

    Ken

  9. #9
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    If your closer inherited runners left on by the starting pitcher then yes, the starting pitcher should be credited with the loss.

    "e) Regardless of how many innings the first pitcher has pitched, he shall be charged with the loss of the game if he is replaced when his team is behind in the score, or falls behind because of runs charged to him after he is replaced, and his team thereafter fails either to tie the score or gain the lead."


    So if your closer was replacing a reliever (which I assume was the case) then he does indeed get the loss.

    (2) Whenever the score is tied the game becomes a new contest insofar as the winning and losing pitcher is concerned

  10. #10
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    10.13 Pitcher scoring bugs (Earned vs unearned runs)

    FYI, we THINK we fixed the problem with Earned Runs being occasionally assigned to the wrong pitcher (if there was a pitcher change with men on base).

    If you find an example in Version 8.28 or later of this bug still existing, please shoot me an e-mail including the game recap text.

    (This also applies to BMO, where it should also be fixed).

    Thanks!

    Clay
    Clay Dreslough, Sports Mogul Inc.
    cjd at sportsmogul dot com / blog / twitter

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clay Dreslough
    If you find an example in Version 8.28 or later of this bug still existing, please shoot me an e-mail including the game recap text.
    So. when do we get, "or later."
    [i]"The media don't understand the kind of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!"[/i]

    [url=http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/][b]FOFC[/b][/url]

  12. #12
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    pitcher allowed 3 runs on a homer....no Earned Runs

    Yet, he has a 0.00 era still. He has only played 2 games and allowed these 3 runs in an extra inning game. Here is the inning he pitched from play by play...

    TOP OF THE TENTH
    Al Jones came in to pitch for the White Sox. <--->
    Don Baylor reached first on a throwing error by the third baseman. <--1>
    Tony Bernazard laid down a sacrifice bunt to the catcher. <-2->
    Carney Lansford singled through the right side. <3-1>
    Tim Raines lined out to center field. <3-1>
    Chili Davis homered into the right field bleachers for three RBIs. <--->
    Gary Carter grounded to second. <--->
    3 runs, 2 hits, 1 error, and 0 left on base.
    In the middle of the tenth, California leads 10 to 7.

    It gave him 0 earned runs, instead of 2 earned runs and 1 unearned. So this should be looked into. I think it messed up because of the first guy on base reached on an error, which it then just said that all the runs scored because of that error...which cant be the case with a home run.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by jjtheindianboy; 07-02-2005 at 04:09 PM.
    [URL=http://www.setiusa.net]www.setiusa.net[/URL]

  13. #13
    TheJay Guest
    Might it have something to do with the fact that the inning should have ended after Raines lined out (Baylor, Bernazard and Raines all out) and thus Davis should never have come up and hit the home run? I'm not sure of the exact rules of what constitutes earned and unearned runs but I think if runs score after the inning should have ended they are unearned. Like I said though, I could be wrong

  14. #14
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    you must have read it wrong. Baylor was never out. He reached 1st on the error. and then Bernazard bunted him to 2nd(1 out). Next Lansford singles. So 2 on and 1 out. Then Raines lines out(2 out). Then a homer by Davis for 3 runs. And the third out was after that, carter grounding to 2nd.
    [URL=http://www.setiusa.net]www.setiusa.net[/URL]

  15. #15
    TheJay Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by jjtheindianboy
    you must have read it wrong. Baylor was never out. He reached 1st on the error. and then Bernazard bunted him to 2nd(1 out). Next Lansford singles. So 2 on and 1 out. Then Raines lines out(2 out). Then a homer by Davis for 3 runs. And the third out was after that, carter grounding to 2nd.
    My point was Baylor should have been out even though he reached on the error. For the purpose of determining earned runs, this would have been the first out of the inning. Bernazard would have been out #2 and Raines would have made the third out. Since the inning would have ended after Raines lined out had the error not been made, Davis (in a perfect fielding world) would never have come up to hit the home run. Therefore the runs scored on the home run are not credited to the pitcher.

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