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Thread: Dipping a Toe into OOTP

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    Charlotte, NC
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    Dipping a Toe into OOTP

    Mogul has been the sim for me since 2007. Okay - I gave up on it the first time I played it and it showed David Ortiz hating Boston, but once I came on the boards, learned the game, I was back in. It wasn't my only baseball game - MLB Power Pros on Wii gave me years of fun, and later the Super Mega series came a knockin...but for simulation, it's been Mogul. Just playing and logging, then joining leagues (and getting hosed in pushy trades my first day, then finding cheating a-holes, and finally settling on some nice compatriots), then running leagues. Between one or two leagues, the arcade-style baseball games, and 4 or 5 fantasy leagues a year, I was full on baseball.

    I had gotten some OOTP versions over the years - gifts, free, HumbleBundles, maybe I bought one, I forget. I had invested a little bit of time in version 15, playing as a lowly manager of a Dominican summer league, I think for the Phillies...and I found a way to lose every game. I'm not talking like, .333 winning percentage...I played through 40 games and won only 1. I had specifically limited my scope to only managing my team, unable to make any transactions or have to care about the league as a whole. It was like getting into progressive music at first: I made it the smallest possible bite, so my big dumb brain could acclimate and not freak out. And I did terribly.

    Fast forward a few years and some buddies have an OOTP league. They had a GM opening and it was a no-good rebuilding squad...really hard to screw it up, no pressure. Just good trades, and I've learned that from years of Moguling. It was using the new version, but I have the money...so I took the plunge and bought it. OOTP 21, installed...my first time as a GM.

    Holy cow. This is like work. Big and overwhelming work.

    First off the entire minors rosters are there. Not just R/A/AA/AAA, but DSL/AZL variants of rookie league. A-, A, and A+ levels of A-ball. IL and waiver/DFA sections entirely separate. 40 man roster. And the number of players! My god.

    The first thing is adapting to the "realistic" scouting scores. I hate it. Everyone is at least a 20 at birth. And the highest at anything is 80, but no one is that, so it's just a sea of guys rated 20 to 45. Some people give me the scoop - "you have to look at their traits," I'm told. Some 3B may not be much but he has a great arm...try making him a two-way player. This guy looks like he'll crap out at 21 - but wait, he's got a great work ethic, he may turn into a late bloomer at 26.

    Mogul has scouting - you pay your scouting budget, you see your collective scouts' opinion. OOTP has your head scout's idea stamped on everything, but then you get a rating - that scouting is accurate, or VERY accurate, or not-at-all accurate. Then there's a standard leaguewide OSA scouting that we all see. You have to toggle between them both - your scout may thing your 3B will become a star, but toggle to OSA and the whole league sees him as a backup at best. THEN there's BNN ratings of prospects, which aren't necessarily in line with either. Complexity upon complexity.

    The amount of data is deep and rich. Every sheet of players you pull up lets you flip between ratings, potential, financial info etc- AND add columns or filters as you see fit. Want to keep track of all your top stars, or the two-way guys? No problem, make a shortlist.

    The biggest things I don't like are:
    - that flat scouting score. 20 to 50 (for 95% of players), with increments at 5, just gives so little range. Mogul having a 77 versus an 81 means more to me - it allows little things to get in that weighting that are missing.
    - not color coding guys. Guys that are Rule V draftees, or headed to FA, or MLB vs minors contracts. Or first-year draftees. You spend all this time finding a suitable prospect to accept for trade, only to find out he's a Rule V guy or just drafted that year. You didn't check his 7th page! Your fault!
    - There's already so much deep information here...why is OOTP storing a player's weight gain? Plus or minus a pound every week??



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    Quote Originally Posted by gleklufdshlaw View Post
    Unfortunately, I do not have all the answers...

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Issaquah, WA
    Posts
    3

    Re: Dipping a Toe into OOTP

    I have really been playing OOTP since it was season ticket baseball...but mostly played mogul until BM2k15. I think that was the last version of mogul I bought. The interface is still stuck in 1999.

    After a lack of upgrades and lack of features I finally gave up... also Baseball Mogul online was pretty neat, I played in a ton of leagues and it was fun but then that was given up as well. I am surprised that BMO didn't make it. There were a ton of players, I paid $14.99 a month to play in 10 leagues! So worth it!

    OOTP 21 is a really good game and OOTP 22 is on preorder right now, comes in a week and a half!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2021
    Location
    Ashbourne
    Posts
    1

    Re: Dipping a Toe into OOTP

    I assume you now have it, so what's the verdict?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
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    Re: Dipping a Toe into OOTP

    OOTP has its problems, but...the depth of all these leagues, the options, the two-way players, the 40 man rosters, realistic Options and contracts and waivers...it's what I've been trying to do manually using forums for Mogul for a decade, and so much more. I'd say I'm a happy OOTP'er and will buy the '22 version once my league switches to it.

    Mogul was a great entry point back in 2007, and I'm thankful for the game. It's been a great run, friends across 10 or so leagues (and some monumental assholes and cheaters in those leagues). It's mostly been a blast!

    It's my own fault for not taking the plunge. After the simplicity of mogul and the UI, everything OOTP was overwhelming. Here I am 8 months in and I'm still figuring out where to go for every sub menu and bit of information that I need. Once I was in a league and under the gun to actually improve a team, it forced me to learn enough to get by - and ask questions, etc. It was my own limitation and to my own detriment. If I had overcome it sooner, I would've had years of more in-depth league play on a more complete and engrossing baseball sim.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Mountain View, CA
    Posts
    413

    Re: Dipping a Toe into OOTP

    I prefer Baseball Mogul, partially because I'm being a hipster and preferring the less popular version. (At least based on Reddit threads I see.)

    I also prefer it because it's not as processor-intensive and I can multitask (write stuff, play WoW), and with OOTP I can't really do that.

    I've played OOTP on and off but still stick with Baseball Mogul Diamond. In BBM16/17 and beyond, they changed the player aging formula where almost every player would suddenly become great around 24 and drop off at 32. I think they put more stock in a faster sim and less player development.
    Bill Mueller was the best third baseman in the year 2003. He was not the best third baseman when I wrote my first signature, because that was in 2001...

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
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    On the ice blue line of insanity.
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    3,441

    Re: Dipping a Toe into OOTP

    Quote Originally Posted by Electricbassguy View Post
    In BBM16/17 and beyond, they changed the player aging formula where almost every player would suddenly become great around 24 and drop off at 32. I think they put more stock in a faster sim and less player development.
    The aging formula hasn't changed since Baseball Mogul Diamond. I've definitely streamlined the code, but it was just optimizing existing algorithms not changing them. I was about to create a tool to output player Peak Start and Peak End ages to ensure they were correctly tracking the new data I have by position, so I'll see if there's enough variety there. (I could even add these to Sortable Stats. It seems a bit weird to be able to view player's "secret" stats on that screen, but if you have Commissioner Mode there's no good reason I shouldn't make this option available).
    Clay Dreslough, Sports Mogul Inc.
    cjd at sportsmogul dot com / blog / twitter

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    Bug reports and roster corrections: support@sportsmogul.com

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Mountain View, CA
    Posts
    413

    Re: Dipping a Toe into OOTP

    Quote Originally Posted by Clay Dreslough View Post
    The aging formula hasn't changed since Baseball Mogul Diamond. I've definitely streamlined the code, but it was just optimizing existing algorithms not changing them. I was about to create a tool to output player Peak Start and Peak End ages to ensure they were correctly tracking the new data I have by position, so I'll see if there's enough variety there. (I could even add these to Sortable Stats. It seems a bit weird to be able to view player's "secret" stats on that screen, but if you have Commissioner Mode there's no good reason I shouldn't make this option available).
    Thanks for the info. I'm not an expert in making games so I don't really know the work that goes into it.

    Maybe my observations are incorrect.
    Bill Mueller was the best third baseman in the year 2003. He was not the best third baseman when I wrote my first signature, because that was in 2001...

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