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Thread: hotdogs

  1. #1
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    hotdogs

    Is a hotdog a sandwich? I say no....


    “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
    ― Isaac Asimov

  2. #2
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    Re: hotdogs

    While in concept they're pretty similar, I think there are enough variants of the hot dog for it to get it's own category.

  3. #3
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    Re: hotdogs

    This was a twitter battle, like 6 months ago. Similar to the blue/black vs. gold/white dress.

    The answer is "No".

    Sandwiches can be wraps, or submarine/hoagie, or triple decker. They usually include a lot of ingredients - mayo, lettuce, tomato, mustard, pickles, meats, etc.

    Hot dogs are a sausage-like wrapping of meat-ish substance. The term 'hot dog' by itself does NOT necessarily indicate inclusion of the bun - I ate hot dogs without buns as a kid, sometimes raw with ketchup cuz we were poor and gross, sometimes pan-fried with bread crumbs in a tasty recipe.

    A hot dog, with a bun, can include a wide range of condiments, "chicago style" going all the way close to sandwich-esque components. If you combine this with the previous submarine sandwich classification, then some might be tempted to say "hey, a chicago style hot dog on a bun comes awfully close to being a sandwich…"

    And they are right. In that particular set of circumstances, it comes CLOSE to being a sandwich.

    But it's not. It's tubular meat on a bun. Most grown men can still hold an entire one with one hand. Sandwiches are two handed affairs (unless you cut them up, which is okay with a triple-decker club, but not anything else).

  4. #4
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    Re: hotdogs

    [QUOTE=Alloutwar;1619086]This was a twitter battle, like 6 months ago.

    That shows how up to date I am.....
    I never saw the hotdog listed in the sandwich section of a menu....granted its usually in the kids section.


    “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
    ― Isaac Asimov

  5. #5
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    Re: hotdogs

    Quote Originally Posted by Alloutwar View Post
    This was a twitter battle, like 6 months ago. Similar to the blue/black vs. gold/white dress.

    The answer is "No".

    Sandwiches can be wraps, or submarine/hoagie, or triple decker. They usually include a lot of ingredients - mayo, lettuce, tomato, mustard, pickles, meats, etc.

    Hot dogs are a sausage-like wrapping of meat-ish substance. The term 'hot dog' by itself does NOT necessarily indicate inclusion of the bun - I ate hot dogs without buns as a kid, sometimes raw with ketchup cuz we were poor and gross, sometimes pan-fried with bread crumbs in a tasty recipe.

    A hot dog, with a bun, can include a wide range of condiments, "chicago style" going all the way close to sandwich-esque components. If you combine this with the previous submarine sandwich classification, then some might be tempted to say "hey, a chicago style hot dog on a bun comes awfully close to being a sandwich…"

    And they are right. In that particular set of circumstances, it comes CLOSE to being a sandwich.

    But it's not. It's tubular meat on a bun. Most grown men can still hold an entire one with one hand. Sandwiches are two handed affairs (unless you cut them up, which is okay with a triple-decker club, but not anything else).
    to me, most anything that comes in a bread type vessel is a sandwich. Grinders, burgers, cold cuts, wraps, etc. All sandwichs. Hot dog sandwichs fit the same mold.

    while a hot dog in itself is not a sandwich in the same way that a meatball is not a sandwich, i'd argue that once in a bun it is in fact a sandwich in the same way that a meatball grinder is. A "hot dog sandwich" is the term that is synonymous with "hot dog" as they usually serve it in a bun. While hot dogs can often be eaten with one hand, depending upon whats on it they are often began with two hands to avoid a sloppy mess. A sausage grinder is also tubular meat on a bun. I know of nobody that would say a sausage grinder is not a sandwich unless one is for some reason splitting hairs citing differences between a grinder and a sandwich.

  6. #6
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    Re: hotdogs

    Shocker: Dickay is Wrong on the Internet

  7. #7
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    Re: hotdogs

    Who could've guessed that dickay would be on the "hot dogs are sandwiches" side of things?

  8. #8
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    Re: hotdogs

    Quote Originally Posted by Alloutwar View Post
    Shocker: Dickay is Wrong on the Internet
    Sandwiches come in all shapes and sizes.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandwich

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sandwich

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sandwiches

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_dog

    A hot dog (also spelled hotdog) is a cooked sausage, traditionally grilled or steamed and served in a sliced bun as a sandwich.

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    Re: hotdogs

    Ive heard wikipedia can be edited by anyone and is therefore not a reliable source.

    Mirriam-webster doesnt help you there. No mention of hot dogs - just two slices of bread with something between them.

  10. #10
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    Re: hotdogs

    Quote Originally Posted by Alloutwar View Post
    Ive heard wikipedia can be edited by anyone and is therefore not a reliable source.

    Mirriam-webster doesnt help you there. No mention of hot dogs - just two slices of bread with something between them.
    depends upon how literal one wants to take the "two slices of bread" thing. The french dip or cheesesteak are two classic sandwiches which I don't think anyone would seriously dispute. Those aren't two slices of bread they are a roll sliced and hinged just like a hot dog roll. Other classic sandwiches often served on hinged buns that I can think of are the po boy, cuban, and most any type of grinder including sausage, meatball, chicken cutlet, etc.

    Also, Merriam Webster states this in the full definition, in addition to what you posted:
    b : one slice of bread covered with food
    sounds like a good ole hot dog to me.

  11. #11
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    Re: hotdogs

    Well you can take it up with the National Hot Dog and Sausage Council, who have confirmed irrefutably that the hot dog is not a sandwich.

    http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2015/11/...7781447090805/

  12. #12
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    Re: hotdogs

    Quote Originally Posted by Alloutwar View Post
    Hot dogs are a sausage-like wrapping of meat-ish substance. The term 'hot dog' by itself does NOT necessarily indicate inclusion of the bun
    This is, of course, the right answer.

    With this information, I believe, then, that, certainly, sandwiches with hot dogs can exist and, less certainly, that hot dog sandwiches can exist, though neither of those is what is commonly referred to as a hot dog.

    First, assume a standard grilled-cheese sandwich - two slices of bread and cheese. This is a sandwich. Now imagine, for reasons I don't claim to know, that someone chops up a hot dog and puts the pieces into the grilled-cheese sandwich. It would not cease to be a sandwich it would just become a sandwich with hot dog inside.

    Second, take the term "hot dog sandwich". What appears in your mind? For me, and I'd imagine most reasonable people, the image of one or more hot dogs laying on some slices of flat bread, with whatever condiments, is what comes to mind. I think, reasonably, this is a hot dog sandwich.

    I hope that someone can convince me otherwise, but I agree with Dickay. A hot dog on a bun is a specialized type of sandwich. The above shows that the simple fact of the inclusion of a hot dog does not render a food as not being a sandwich. Also, if sliced turkey and mustard were placed in a hot dog bun, I would still consider that a sandwich. So, a bun does not render a food as not being a sandwich.

    Thus, it seems to me, that a hot dog is a sandwich.


    As for this,
    Quote Originally Posted by Alloutwar View Post
    Well you can take it up with the National Hot Dog and Sausage Council, who have confirmed irrefutably that the hot dog is not a sandwich.

    http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2015/11/...7781447090805/
    just come on. This is no evidence
    The council, which declared itself "the official voice of hot dogs and sausages,"announced its favorite meat-and-bun combination is no mere sandwich, but rather "an exclamation of joy, a food, a verb describing one 'showing off' and even an emoji. It is truly a category unto its own."
    "Limiting the hot dog's significance by saying it's 'just a sandwich' is like calling theDalai Lama 'just a guy,'" NHDSC President Janet Riley said. "Perhaps at one time its importance could be limited by forcing it into a larger sandwich category (no disrespect to Reubens and others), but that time has passed. We therefore choose to take a cue from a great performer and declare our namesake be a 'hot dog formerly known as a sandwich.'"

  13. #13
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    Re: hotdogs

    I will stipulate that hot dogs, sliced up and put between two slices of bread, is a sandwich.

    I will also agree to dickay's assessment that a sausage grinder or meatball sub is technically a sandwich - the submarine sandwich variant, but still a sandwich!

    So again, I can see where you are coming from, especially combined with a Chicago-style dog that has all kinds of sandwich-esque toppings. It's pretty close to qualifying in my mind.

    To me, where the line is is around the specialized bun setting. Most hot dog/bun combos are not the standard size of a submarine sandwich, 8" or longer. They are more like 6", once-handed, with their own specialized set of condiment choices - relish, mustard, ketchup, sauerkraut. Very little crossover with typical sandwich fair there.

    Is the specialized Hot Dog Bun used for other things? Is it regularly crammed with turkey instead, or maybe used for peanut butter and jelly? Nooo. but submarine sandwich buns can be used for anything. The one-handed, narrow-opening hot dog bun is too specialized. Nothing else like it exists in the sandwich spectrum - burger buns, bread slices, wraps, and grinders can all be filled with pretty close to anything. Hot dog buns? Sole purpose.

    Specialized market is another great reason. Can you go up to a hot dog vendor and get turkey on rye? How about olives? Mayo? Noooo. Go to the sandwich place - Quizno's, Subway (ugh), Penn Station, Jersey Mikes, or even the deli counter of your local grocery chain. Any of them have hot dogs as a hot meal service option? Relish? Sauerkraut? No, on all counts (typically).

    If this were a species of animal, it would be an offshoot worthy of its own genus. Maybe it's all that science I had to take in school, but the Hot Dog on bun - while possibly descended from and sharing some traits with the Sandwich family - is out there on its own branch. Too little in common, too much specialization.

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