Official 2014 MLB Discussion Thread

[Alloutwar]

I actually avoided Dozier when he was available in my other league, because my AVG was a problem and I was near the top everywhere else, so adding another .234 guy wasn't going to be a big win.

I know Dozier has been the Yahoo darling, great OBP, but only one league does OBP for me. In my leagues I usually have Kinsler or Neil Walker at 2B...and Kipnis on the DL in one league. I don't have Cano or anything but I feel like those are safer bets than Dozier. Still, since this league uses OBP and OPS as weekly H2H categories, it was silly for no one to have picked him up. I am OK with it tho!

One thing I love is people that avoided Nelson Cruz...maybe because of PEDs, maybe because of his late signing. Its worked well for me in the 2 leagues I got him in the mid rounds!

Yeah Dozier doesn't replace Jose Fernandez, but maybe I could trade one of my 2Bs for a pitcher...if people were active enough to trade in this league...

[Alloutwar]

Oh and I do NOT subscribe to lineup protection, goober! I subscribe to facts about an overall poor offense (historically bad in 2013), and the fact that guys have to be on base in order for you to get RBI. My original snipe against Stanton was that he was going to have a 40-homer, 58 RBI season. That does not point to lineup protection, but rather a lack of anyone useful to get on base in front of him. They've turned it around in an unprecedented fashion this year, but if you thinkn McGehee and Dietrich are going to keep this up, please step forward...

[MichelleWie]

The fact is that runs per HR is almost a random stat, as my post in the other thread proved. Some of the best offenses in baseball were near the bottom in that stat while the 2013 Marlins were ahead of several teams. No predictive value in that stat! Not to mention some of the hitters you said you liked more had worse or similar HR/RBI rates as Stanton in 2013 and played on far superior offenses. That myth has been busted.

Yeah I know I am beating a dead horse by resurrecting this argument but I love me some Giancarlo Stanton!! (And quite honestly, it's not like this forum is bustling with activity)And cannot understand your irrational hate towards him.

[MichelleWie]

I guess I could see Dozier not being owned in a smaller league that used AVG. Most teams only carry 1 2B and if you were happy with the 2B you had, you wouldn't pick him up. But using OBP and OPS there is no excuse not to own him.

[Alloutwar]

Ok so here's a quandary for you - which guy do you take on your fantasy team:

1) Giancarlo "DON'T CALL ME MIKE" Stanton, in a lineup of 8 Nick Puntos
2) Jose Bautista in the Blue Jays lineup
3) Freddie Freeman in the Braves lineup

It isn't SOLELY RBI per HR that matters. RBIs can also come from hits, assuming you have a team that gets on base in front of you. Also, a player's Run total will depend on the batters behind him. So if Stanton is in the worlds crappiest lineup, like he was last season, while his homers and average are a function of himself, the runs and RBIs he contributes will be affected by that piss-poor lineup. Thus, judging a player as slightly less valuable because of the terrible offense around him - when your value of him relies on runs and RBIs he creates, which depends on that team - is sensible.

If you disagree with that, then you can take Stanton with his 8 Nick Puntos and see him trail just average OFers in RBIs and runs.

It's NOT just runs-per-HR. It's not just his injury propensity. Its not just his 'meh' career average. It isnt just that the ownership group is crap and will never field a decent team (except for 1-year miracles that are then sold off). Its not just the historically terrible offense around him last season - ahead AND behind, and how likely that was to repeat. But if you have an analytical mind and take ALL of that in, you simply can't see Stanton as a top of the heap OF bat. If you do, then go pickup some Cubs and Astros hitters while they are cheap. Roll all the dice with Cano as your 2B. Because somehow a players' magnificence in your mind can overcome a terrible offense around him and how it contributes to 2 of the 5 key stats you are looking for?

If Stanton ever floated down to the mid rounds where I considered it worth taking a gamble on him, I'd take him. But somehow his brand power puts him way up ahead of his actual impact on a fantasy team - very much like Bryce Harper. So with Stanton not only do you have to face the chance that his surrounding offense will cost you in two categories, you also have to pay a 'hype premium' to get him early. Those are exactly the players I avoid...again, something that has worked really well for me in the years of fantasy baseball. Just a personal preference in how I weigh players man.

[asianinvasion]

Calling the rest of the Marlins lineup a bunch of Nick Puntos is a huge exaggeration though.

Yes, they're overperforming right now, but there's still a decent enough of a lineup around him.

Yelich is a decent OBP guy who gets on base for Stanton to drive in. And Saltalamacchia is an above average hitter than can drive Stanton in. Obviously Casey McGahee and Garrett Jones aren't gonna continue being useful, but even when they cool off, there's still enough pieces for Stanton to be useful.

Also, that Braves lineup isn't too hot either. It's just Freeman, Justin Upton and Gattis when he feels like homering. BJ Upton, Johnson, Simmons, Uggla are all terrible hitters that don't provide much. Heyward should eventually turn it around but who knows.

[Alloutwar]

sure, total exaggeration. But if the rest of the lineup is totally irrelevant as Wie continues to opine, then it shouldn't dissuade him from going Stanton all the way.

The Braves have been pathetically sad, the Marlins have been playing way over their heads. Its been 40 games, I feel like those will both even out to something more expected. Still, Freeman gives you upside in AVG and RBI, even if his homer total isn't Stanton-level.

Most leagues are still standard 5x5..so Stanton is a guy that gives you nothing in speed, probably a slight negative in AVG looking at his career. Big positive in power...so its just a question of Runs and RBI, and if his counting stats there will be enough to make him worth a high draft position. And if there are guys that I feel are likelier to help in those categories more - or even AVG/SB more - then I don't hesitate to choose them.

[MichelleWie]

Lol. I don't know what to say. C'mon man! You continually makes ridiculous arguments then constantly back track saying they are "obvious exaggerations!" Not even sure I should waste my time responding... Stanton is a beast you missed on this one! It's okay. It happens to the best of us.. No need to throw out absurd comparisons and arguments and then say they are "OBVIOUS HYPERBOLE."

[dps]

Given his age, Stanton is more valuable in a keeper league, because he's still improving. Even in a non-keeper league, I think that AOL is probably a bit too down on him, but his basic point is correct--being on the Marlins is going to limit his RBIs and runs scored. And if you expect Stanton to keep up the pace he's set so far this year, you're nuts. (Projected out to 162 games, he'd have 42 HR, 162 RBIs, 108 runs scored, and 15 stolen bases with no CS. That ain't happening, except maybe for the HRs--I think 42 is a conservative estimate of what he can hit in a good year. And he's not going to keep hitting .325 either, though I do expect he'll end the year a bit above the league average.)

[MichelleWie]

Given his age, Stanton is more valuable in a keeper league, because he's still improving. Even in a non-keeper league, I think that AOL is probably a bit too down on him, but his basic point is correct--being on the Marlins is going to limit his RBIs and runs scored. And if you expect Stanton to keep up the pace he's set so far this year, you're nuts. (Projected out to 162 games, he'd have 42 HR, 162 RBIs, 108 runs scored, and 15 stolen bases with no CS. That ain't happening, except maybe for the HRs--I think 42 is a conservative estimate of what he can hit in a good year. And he's not going to keep hitting .325 either, though I do expect he'll end the year a bit above the league average.)

40/100/100 with a .270 avg and 10 SB is certainly attainable and makes him a fantasy stud. The whole argument started with AOL saying he hates Stanton because he is going to have 40hr and 58 RBI. The Marlins are much improved which is why it is useless to try and predict runs and RBI. Every year someone goes from worst to first nowadays, It's senseless to downgrade a guy for a stat that has such unpredictability.

[MichelleWie]

The Brewers must figure out if they are contenders or not. If you think you are a contender you cannot continue to waste a roster spot on Wang. Give him back to Pitt if you think you can make the playoffs it is obvious he is not MLB ready.

[ragecage]

40/100/100 with a .270 avg and 10 SB is certainly attainable and makes him a fantasy stud. The whole argument started with AOL saying he hates Stanton because he is going to have 40hr and 58 RBI. The Marlins are much improved which is why it is useless to try and predict runs and RBI. Every year someone goes from worst to first nowadays, It's senseless to downgrade a guy for a stat that has such unpredictability.

that filthy AOL liberal hippie

[Alloutwar]

When did AOW become AOL?? That hasn't been my Internet provider for like 20 years

[etothep]

When did AOW become AOL?? That hasn't been my Internet provider for like 20 years

Stay in your lane, Alloutloser

[Cubbie]

Stay in your lane, Alloutloser

You just pwned the dogshit out of him!!!11