Depressing News Item of the Day

[dickay]

Lol, favorably??? It's regarded as a terrible failure. My state is still paying out millions to people that were castrated or rendered unable to have children. Heck when I post that there should be a test or something to prevent any old idiot from having kids, I'm shunned as if I've suggested we put cute puppies to death for fun.

Overpopulation will force us down that road, but for now it's a head in the sand issue.

lol i think you missed my point. it was meant to be facetious. The many in favor of Eugenics at the time are not looked at as "tame" years later. HOWEVER, I will admit that some of the genetic engineering taking place today is in fact a very similar and scary form of eugenics.

You want to know why many issues look "tame" years later? Watch George Carlin's skit on euphemisms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuEQixrBKCc

[dickay]

Back to the main theme, terrible idiotic Republican senators:

This guy (who has to be in his 40s or 50s) was asking a doctor why women can't just swallow a small camera, and then have that camera be used for a remote gynecological exam. you know, when it goes through her intestinal tract and pops out the vagina, like all things women eat.

These people make laws. These people restrict voting rights and approve fracking legislation.

Can we talk about voting rights for a minute. I was in a lengthy discussion recently about this.

GOP argues that we need voter registration/photo ID laws to rid of all the voter fraud. Democrats argue that voter fraud is a myth. While many of these elections, signs of voter fraud exists (incarcerated names on ballots, dead people names on ballots, etc) very very few are ever convicted for likely many reasons. Thus both sides use that argument to support their stances (GOP cite fraud, Dems cite lack of convictions).

Logically, I think we all can agree that when you go to cast a vote you should have to provide some proof that you are who you say you are. Without that I think rationale minded people can agree the credibility can be called into question. For some reason a large amount of states still require ZERO identification to cast a vote. How? Why? In my state, CT, a very liberal state, some type of ID has always been required since i've voted and somehow we manage. CT doesn't require a photo ID but at least some type of ID is required.

Logically, I think we all can agree that IF a photo ID requirement was mandated than it should be easy to obtain and I think we all can agree that this is something that can be accomplished. I know some of the states implementing the photo ID requirements have put restrictions in place that are ******** so lets set it aside and assume logic prevails. If photo ID laws are enacted, concessions would have to be made to ensure easy access to the ID.

So....my argument/question is...If the GOP wants photo ID to eliminate voter fraud, and voter fraud doesn't exist (dem claim), why not just give the GOP the damn photo ID (with of course sensible means of obtaining one) and mandate a concession from the GOP on a real item of importance? This would be a major shift in Dem policy and put the GOP on the spot once and for all. If it's THAT big a deal than they would have to agree to sensible concessions. If the Dems think it's really not a big deal at all since it doesn't exist than they shouldn't mind mandating it. And to boot this issue is one that polls find the general population heavily in favor of improved voter ID laws so it would be popular. The fact that we are in 2015 and have 15 states and DC requiring no identification to cast a ballot to me is just insane.

This won't happen however. Both sides are involved in voter fraud and prefer a stalemate here.

[Alloutwar]

I'd be fine with that.

Yes voter fraud exists, it's just around 0.004%. Whereas the number of people getting screwed over because they can't afford their birth certificate, which they would need to obtain a photo ID, is much larger. (Or they can't take a day off, or they immigrated and can't get a birth certificate, etc etc). The photo Id isn't the problem, it isn't obscene or unfair, it's the fact that the path to getting one for a poor city dweller working 2 or 3 jobs is unnecessarily hard.

GOP knows the score, they know it just screws with enough black folk or poor folk that it helps skew things, in combination with massive spending and propaganda arms like Faux News filling brains like Pete's with gobbledygook.

In NC, already a big ole' test bed for ridiculous photo ID laws, this last election I noticed that my local (charlotte) district was reorganized to make the lines look longer than they are. Previous elections the line went through the library so you only saw a small line outside. This election, the line wrapped around the library - there were way less people, but if you were driving up and saw that huge line you might be deterred and give up. Thats whats nefarious here - it isn't just the push at the state level, but it trickles down to the local level as a-holes try little tricks and ploys to disenfranchise voters. Even some people hearing about the voterID stuff will be dissuaded from voting.

It's a game. The less people vote, the more votes that can be bought, the more chance the GOP has of winning houses (shown in 2014, biggest spending and most restrictions ever).

There are common sense mainstream middle ground solutions, and if you made the photo ID easy to get and free, sure liberals would be on board. But then you still have to make it legit and ensure no one is faking an ID, so there's some overhead to deal with. But if there were some GOP agreement to do something useful - immigration reform, large scale tax reform, stop trying to repeal healthcare reform every 3 hours - I'm sure democrats would agree to pass legislation to ban something as common as rainbow unicorn attacks.

[dickay]

I'd be fine with that.

Yes voter fraud exists, it's just around 0.004%. Whereas the number of people getting screwed over because they can't afford their birth certificate, which they would need to obtain a photo ID, is much larger. (Or they can't take a day off, or they immigrated and can't get a birth certificate, etc etc). The photo Id isn't the problem, it isn't obscene or unfair, it's the fact that the path to getting one for a poor city dweller working 2 or 3 jobs is unnecessarily hard.

GOP knows the score, they know it just screws with enough black folk or poor folk that it helps skew things, in combination with massive spending and propaganda arms like Faux News filling brains like Pete's with gobbledygook.

In NC, already a big ole' test bed for ridiculous photo ID laws, this last election I noticed that my local (charlotte) district was reorganized to make the lines look longer than they are. Previous elections the line went through the library so you only saw a small line outside. This election, the line wrapped around the library - there were way less people, but if you were driving up and saw that huge line you might be deterred and give up. Thats whats nefarious here - it isn't just the push at the state level, but it trickles down to the local level as a-holes try little tricks and ploys to disenfranchise voters. Even some people hearing about the voterID stuff will be dissuaded from voting.

It's a game. The less people vote, the more votes that can be bought, the more chance the GOP has of winning houses (shown in 2014, biggest spending and most restrictions ever).

There are common sense mainstream middle ground solutions, and if you made the photo ID easy to get and free, sure liberals would be on board. But then you still have to make it legit and ensure no one is faking an ID, so there's some overhead to deal with. But if there were some GOP agreement to do something useful - immigration reform, large scale tax reform, stop trying to repeal healthcare reform every 3 hours - I'm sure democrats would agree to pass legislation to ban something as common as rainbow unicorn attacks.

The numbers thrown around for voter fraud existence are subject to very large margins of error. Personally I think they're much higher than you claim, but yes...when you factor in only those who have been convicted than yes your number rings accurate. Heck the definition of voter fraud isn't universally agreed to in these studies so it is what it is.

Glad we agree on the basic premise however. I've heard of "voter registration vans" that roll into these areas where photo ID's aren't as prevelant and make it easier for them to be obtained. There's alot that can be done and getting a valid voter ID should not have to be difficult.

I think you have to admit however that the Dems are missing a great opportunity here. The public is in heavy support of strong voter id laws. Even democrats are in favor. Why aren't they using that to push the GOP to come up with sensible photo ID laws, give the GOP their precious defense against the "rainbow unicorns" in return for something on their end? Instead they continually push against photo ID laws? Why? Maybe it's because they own a large secret stable of rainbow unicorns that they don't want to be forced to exterminate? I don't know....but if this is such an easy concept why aren't they doing it?

[Alloutwar]

Because it gets done at the state level, where election law is created/maintained, not at the federal level. So GOP-run states do it, and liberal states don't.

It's like asking the Senate to compromise with Hawaii's district 8 council. They don't work together in any real way.

[dickay]

Because it gets done at the state level, where election law is created/maintained, not at the federal level. So GOP-run states do it, and liberal states don't.

It's like asking the Senate to compromise with Hawaii's district 8 council. They don't work together in any real way.

which has always been a bone of contention with me. I understand state rights and support them, but for a federal election I don't quite understand how possibly 50 different voting systems is a good thing.

[Alloutwar]

amen to that. scrap the electoral college while we're at it. But a lot of the "blarg states rights!" and "blarg no big gub'ment!" folks prefer a local type of crazy to the national brand.

[dps]

There are common sense mainstream middle ground solutions, and if you made the photo ID easy to get and free, sure liberals would be on board. But then you still have to make it legit and ensure no one is faking an ID, so there's some overhead to deal with.

I think election fraud is more prevalent than you do, and I think it's just common sense to require proof of identity in order to vote. I do agree with you, though, that if it's going to be required to vote, a photo ID should be provided by the state without charge to all eligible voters. Wouldn't even be that hard to implement--we already have voter ID cards, just issue new ones with pictures.

2014, biggest spending and most restrictions ever

Hmm. I suspect African-American who were adults in the 1950s and before might take issue with that last part.

On thing I don't like about voting in NC is that the precincts are too large. Back in my home county in WV, which had a population of a bit under 60,000 when I first became old enough to vote, we had IIRC 89 voting precincts in the county; pretty much everybody except for a few folks who lived in really isolated areas away from everyone else was within easy walking distance of their polling place. Here in Wayne County, NC, population about 120,000, we only have 30 polling places, so lots of people aren't within walking distance of where they vote. That probably discourages more people who can't afford an automobile from voting than requiring photo ID would.

[Alloutwar]

Well yeah there wasn't QUITE a poll tax, but really if the path to a photo ID includes steps that total $40 and about a month of waiting, it might as well be a poll tax. The problem is most people visualize the world through their own lens. I have a car and a license, this is required for my lifestyle; surely everyone can have this? I have plenty of savings and can afford a $30 expense, surely everyone can? I had a decent upbringing that prepared me for life and success, so surely everyone can succeed? Anyone that can't do what I did much be a feckup!

Its thinking along those lines that just gets people way into outer space. Some people don't drive. Some people can't afford a card. Some don't have internet, and when you randomly change the polling location on voting day, they don't know until they get to the wrong place at 7pm. (Yes, NC did that last election too).

I'd love an internet-based election. Vote from your PC, unless you don't have one or internet - then use the polling places, which should be accessible and well staffed. Anyone here sign up on ssn.gov for their social security benefit information? Its a ton of verifying data, but once you're in, you're in. We piggyback on that to verify voter identity - heck, even make a webcam screenshot necessary if we're paranoid that there's fraud there.

[dps]

I think that some of the stuff that goes on here in NC is just incompetence. We moved to Mt. Olive in 2009, and when we registered to vote, we were told our polling place was at the fire station in Seven Springs. Well, Seven Springs was about 12 miles away, but OK, I've got a car. Turns out it was at the Indian Springs Fire Station, which was about 2 miles away--much more convenient for me, if I hadn't driven to Seven Springs first to try and vote. I don't think that was an attempt to keep me from voting, just someone screwing up and telling me the wrong polling place.

[free2131]

I'd love an internet-based election.

Yeah, no chance of fraud with that...

[Alloutwar]

Only the same amount as we're apparently already comfortable with on ssn.gov. Or with filing your taxes electronically.

Its weird, the banal stuff, people are fine with. Try to push for modern technology to assist us in ways we are failing a very basic democratic right, and they're all like OH NO MAI SANCTITY.

[free2131]

Only the same amount as we're apparently already comfortable with on ssn.gov. Or with filing your taxes electronically.

Its weird, the banal stuff, people are fine with. Try to push for modern technology to assist us in ways we are failing a very basic democratic right, and they're all like OH NO MAI SANCTITY.

Honestly, I want it to require a bit more effort to vote for political office and laws than to vote for American Idol. Voting is a right, but if people aren't willing to put forth some effort to exercise that right, they really don't care much about it to begin with. You want to organize public transportation to get to polling stations, I'd be all for that. If you want to provide free of charge a voter ID card required to vote, I'm okay with that, too. If people are too lazy or unwilling to utilize those services, then I'm perfectly fine with their voice not being heard.

[Alloutwar]

Right, I agree with most of that. I just realize that we as a society have made a business of putting up roadblocks (gender, race, poll tax, intimidation, and now photo ID) over the past century or so, and to cap it off we just unlocked the floodgates of corporate money into politics more than every before to drown out the individual's voice.

So swinging it back in the other direction a little bit to make things more open and accessible seems acceptable to me. I would argue that some of it is not laziness, but apathy and remnants of what has been a disappointing system. Whether its the massive F-up of votes that gave Bush Florida in 2000, or the immense corruption unearthed in the Ohio Report from 2004, we don't exactly have a stellar reputation in terms of fair elections - we're not Russia, but jesus we could be better. I'm all for things that get us better, and help push us to 60 or 70 or 80% turnout instead of letting the tiniest factions swing elections. Hell I would push for a national holiday (instead of Columbus day, for instance) so that everyone has voting day off and can spend a few hours learning, making the right choice, and then getting to the polls. Making it compete with work (or school, or child care) is a disadvantage for those worse off, every single election - I can take a day off, a lot of people can't.

Speaking of American Idol, holy crap some of those votes make more sense than ours. With our system you get the one vote and that's it - plus primaries you vote in, if you want. Other countries' voting systems have runoffs, where you can vote for your first choice, and then go to a fallback, mainstream, "electable" candidate if you're guy isn't in the top 2 or 3 or 4. What if we could do that? What if everyone could vote for the far out person they really want, without fear of 'wasting their vote'? Jeez the big two parties would suffer pretty quickly.

[Alloutwar]

Havent put anything up in a while, so let's talk about another pastor looking for handouts, for a private jet. Not his old crappy jet, but a new top of the line $65M jet.

The contributions, from those poor souls? Tax deductible! The ministry? Tax exempt, officially a 'non-profit'.

I feel like Genesis already lampooned this 20+ years ago...