Page 1 of 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 349

Thread: Trayvon Martin Murder

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Uptown Minneapolis
    Posts
    11,831

    Trayvon Martin Murder

    No thread on it yet? Discuss (either his murder or there being no thread about it). If we ban hoodies, what will HGM and I ever do?!?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    6,394

    Re: Trayvon Martin Murder

    I've argued about this case on a few different forums, and it amazes me how many people are willing to rush to the defense of this Zimmerman creep.
    derp

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    7,394

    Re: Trayvon Martin Murder

    I only watch Fox news, and they've barely mentioned it at all.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Savoy, IL
    Posts
    7,714

    Re: Trayvon Martin Murder

    Gonna go back to Florida and start shooting some white dudes. When they ask, I'll say that with white dudes shooting people lately, I thought they were all threatening.
    Illini.

    Yeah I need a Winn-Dixie grocery bag full of money right next to the VIP section...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Des Moines, WA
    Posts
    1,013

    Re: Trayvon Martin Murder

    Quote Originally Posted by Alloutwar View Post
    I only watch Fox news, and they've barely mentioned it at all.
    Read the comment threads on foxnews.com. The amount of blatant racism is astounding. It seems like the average Fox viewer is scared to death by brown people.
    When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a Communist - Dom Hélder Pessoa Câmara
    Career Paths: 1901 and Beyond

    My last.fm

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    45,249

    Re: Trayvon Martin Murder

    There's not much to discuss about this among rational people.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Savoy, IL
    Posts
    7,714

    Re: Trayvon Martin Murder

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonGM View Post
    There's not much to discuss about this among rational people.
    Nope. If he really has valid self-defense, make him prove that in a trial.
    Illini.

    Yeah I need a Winn-Dixie grocery bag full of money right next to the VIP section...

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    3,467

    Re: Trayvon Martin Murder

    i dont' know why everyone has to be so closed minded on this. everyone immediately wants to claim racism and subsequently ignores any other information that doesn't fit their claim.

    we don't have all the facts. just yesterday it was reported that someone actually witnessed an altercation in which zimmerman was assaulted prior to the shooting. is it possible this was known by the police and they are vetting it which is why they didn't make an arrest? I've seen stories of the girlfriends conversation, witnesses after he shooting that said zim didn't help....but now we have one thats been made public that observed the altercation prior.

    is it a lie? who knows? thats for the police to sort out. why give belief to the girlfriends story and not one of someone in the neighborhood?

    i hate to speculate because its all people are doing on this....but is it possible martin assaulted zimmerman because he didn't like being followed? is it justified to assault someone for following? it's a neighborhood watch. zimmerman, according to his statements, believed something suspicious and was following martin until he left the neighborhood. why would he call 911 ahead of time if he was planning on gunning him down?

    but thats speculation. it sounds just as rationale as the opposing viewpoint yet everyone apparently knows all the facts and this MUST be racism because it sells more newspapers.

    racism exists...this very well could've been a racist attack by zimmerman...but for people to automatically write it off as such and choose to ignore any differing open minded opinion has me wondering if that in itself is not racist.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    45,249

    Re: Trayvon Martin Murder

    Quote Originally Posted by dickay View Post
    i dont' know why everyone has to be so closed minded on this. everyone immediately wants to claim racism and subsequently ignores any other information that doesn't fit their claim.

    we don't have all the facts. just yesterday it was reported that someone actually witnessed an altercation in which zimmerman was assaulted prior to the shooting. is it possible this was known by the police and they are vetting it which is why they didn't make an arrest? I've seen stories of the girlfriends conversation, witnesses after he shooting that said zim didn't help....but now we have one thats been made public that observed the altercation prior.
    There were other witnesses that were told by the police to change their story (ie. their story against Zimmerman). There were chilling 911 calls that were released that it doesn't sound like you've heard.

    Quote Originally Posted by dickay View Post
    is it a lie? who knows? thats for the police to sort out.
    And that's really the crux of the issue and the entire reason why it blew up into a national story. The police weren't doing anything. If it weren't for the national outrage, the case would've been forgotten about and there would have been no chance at justice for a dead teenager that did absolutely nothing wrong.

    And don't for a second tell me that if this situation was a black guy shooting a white kid with a bag of skittles and an iced tea, that the black guy wouldn't have been arrested on the spot. Please. Don't be naive.

    Quote Originally Posted by dickay View Post
    i hate to speculate because its all people are doing on this....but is it possible martin assaulted zimmerman because he didn't like being followed? is it justified to assault someone for following? it's a neighborhood watch. zimmerman, according to his statements, believed something suspicious and was following martin until he left the neighborhood. why would he call 911 ahead of time if he was planning on gunning him down?
    The guy called 911 every other day or something absurd like that. He called 911 for every possibly suspicious thing that he saw. Further, the 911 operator told him to stay put and that police were on their way. He disregarded that and pursued Trayvon anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by dickay View Post
    but thats speculation. it sounds just as rationale as the opposing viewpoint yet everyone apparently knows all the facts and this MUST be racism because it sells more newspapers.
    It doesn't even have to be racism on the part of the shooter (I'll just ignore the fact that Zimmerman called Martin a "coon" on the 911 call...I'm sure most non-racists call black people coons). I don't care if Zimmerman shot Trayvon out of racism or because he was a psycho overzealous paranoid freak. It doesn't matter. Zimmerman had no place following the kid and less of a place shooting him. There is no evidence that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman and hell, even if there was, the point is: THE POLICE SHOULD MAKE THE ARREST AND INVESTIGATE AND NOT JUST BLINDLY ACCEPT THE STORY OF THE SHOOTER AND EVEN ATTEMPT TO COERCE WITNESSES INTO CHANGING THEIR STORY. The police department completely bungled this case, regardless of anything else.

    Quote Originally Posted by dickay View Post
    racism exists...this very well could've been a racist attack by zimmerman...but for people to automatically write it off as such and choose to ignore any differing open minded opinion has me wondering if that in itself is not racist.
    No.

    But I was expecting you to jump in here to defend Zimmerman. It was too perfect of a situation for you not to.

    A skinny little kid holding a bag of skittles and an iced tea was shot down by a guy with 125 pounds on him. Trayvon Martin should be alive right now and Zimmerman is directly responsible for his death. He ignored the 911 operator, pursued a kid while holding a loaded weapon, and according to basically every account, instigated a conflict and escalated it. Did you hear the 911 calls from bystanders? A young kid's voice screaming repeatedly for help. Yeah, I'm sure Zimmerman was fearing for his life and just had to shoot to defend himself. There is no way to justify this shooting. Stop trying to.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    45,249

    Re: Trayvon Martin Murder

    Quote Originally Posted by haveacigar View Post
    Nope. If he really has valid self-defense, make him prove that in a trial.
    Ding, ding, ding.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    3,467

    Re: Trayvon Martin Murder

    There were other witnesses that were told by the police to change their story (ie. their story against Zimmerman). There were chilling 911 calls that were released that it doesn't sound like you've heard.
    any proof of the police telling some to change their story? And yes, i did hear all the 911 calls. Please show me one that makes a clear case that this kid did not assault zimmerman, as he and the only eye witness yet to discuss what they saw just prior to the gun shot, have claimed. The many i've heard discuss, and you can even hear, someone screaming help.

    And that's really the crux of the issue and the entire reason why it blew up into a national story. The police weren't doing anything. If it weren't for the national outrage, the case would've been forgotten about and there would have been no chance at justice for a dead teenager that did absolutely nothing wrong.
    how do you know the police "weren't doing anything"? It's very common for them not to release witness statements as it very well could pollute other potential witness accounts. They police had Zimmerman, who called to report a suspicious person to 911 and called for the police to show, claiming it was self-defense as well as possibly witnesses who said they saw Zimmerman get assaulted and screaming for help prior to the shooting. Without knowing any other facts, and assuming Zimmerman has a clean prior history which I believe he does not counting a charge that was dropped, I can understand them not making an immediate arrest. I wouldn't want to live in a country in which I or anyone was arrested and charged with a crime for defending myself. The burden of proof is always on the police PRIOR to making an arrest. Based upon all the evidence I've seen thus far, I don't see where they had enough to charge him with a crime.
    And don't for a second tell me that if this situation was a black guy shooting a white kid with a bag of skittles and an iced tea, that the black guy wouldn't have been arrested on the spot. Please. Don't be naive.
    Same exact situation....than no, i'd like to think the black person wouldn't be arrested on the spot either. What evidence did they have to arrest him? He asked for the police to show. He called them to be there. Because he was following the kid in his neighborhood? A neighborhood thats had recent issues with crime and has instituted a neighborhood watch? Thats a crime now?

    The guy called 911 every other day or something absurd like that. He called 911 for every possibly suspicious thing that he saw. Further, the 911 operator told him to stay put and that police were on their way. He disregarded that and pursued Trayvon anyway.
    Lets stick to facts and not exaggerate. I don't care how many times he called 911. Just because the 911 operator told him that they didn't need him to follow Martin doesn't make it a crime to do so, nor does following someone give valid cause for someone to be assaulted.
    It doesn't even have to be racism on the part of the shooter (I'll just ignore the fact that Zimmerman called Martin a "coon" on the 911 call...I'm sure most non-racists call black people coons). I don't care if Zimmerman shot Trayvon out of racism or because he was a psycho overzealous paranoid freak. It doesn't matter. Zimmerman had no place following the kid and less of a place shooting him. There is no evidence that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman and hell, even if there was, the point is: THE POLICE SHOULD MAKE THE ARREST AND INVESTIGATE AND NOT JUST BLINDLY ACCEPT THE STORY OF THE SHOOTER AND EVEN ATTEMPT TO COERCE WITNESSES INTO CHANGING THEIR STORY. The police department completely bungled this case, regardless of anything else.
    cool story bro. do you have any proof of this? First of all, I heard many calls but didn't hear him call martin a "coon". besides the point, i'll honestly take your word on it. Should he have followed? No. Is that in itself a crime? Absolutely not. Is it understandable that someone on the phone with the cops over having concern of a suspicious person would want to follow that person to ensure the police could question them? Not at all. The police have info all the time telling citizens if they see something not to engage, not to pursue, but to phone it in and leave it be yet it happens all the time. And when it happens and a crime is averted it's viewed as a brave and good thing. Heck, if it were my neighborhood, or yours...and there was alot of criminal activity I think we very well would also follow - at a distance - to see if we could assist the police in anyway and ensure they questioned a suspicious person. You claim "there is no evidence that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman"...BUT THERE IS! Again, eye witness statements of the man in the red shirt on the bottom of a scrum being assualted by the man in the gray shirt. That was just prior to the shooting. In addition, how do you know the evidence? How do you know all the evidence that the police have? How do you know they coerced witnesses? This thing is fueled with racism at this point, you have all kinds of people making claims. The point is, nobody should rush to judgement on Martin, Zimmerman, or the police at this point. I don't know who's telling the truth, who's lying, and most importantly I don't know all the evidence the police have. In cases involving witnesses and investigation is compromised if you give up too much specifics on witness accounts too early.

    To make it short...there's a large gap between when Zimmermans phone call with the cops ended and when the kid was shot. All of the phone calls heard discuss only that there is a fight taking place, someones yelling help, and someone was shot. The gap between that call and shot being fired is in question. We know Zimmerman followed. To what extent....we speculate. The most recent witness statement released is from someone claims he went outside his house when the scrum began and the gray shirted man was on top of the red shirted man assaulting him. The red shirted man asked for help and the witness said he was going to call 911. Seconds later the shot was fired. Surely the police had that statement day 1, but it wasn't released until what...days later? There's valid reason for them not to release that. if that report, and Zimmermans report are the only ones who really saw what took place (other than the numerous phone call accounts in which they only report a scrum taking place and someone yelling help)....than I would say there's not enough there for an arrest to be made.

    But I was expecting you to jump in here to defend Zimmerman. It was too perfect of a situation for you not to.
    there you go putting words in my mouth. I'm in no way defending Zimmerman. I'm saying I don't have enough evidence to claim he should be arrested. I'm saying i'm not jumping on the circus trying to claim racism on the police dept. level is responsible for an arrest not being made. I think Zimmerman acted stupidly by leaving his car. I would've pursued in my vehicle around the neighborhood hoping to see where the man went. No way i would've chased him on foot. That itself is not a crime nor is it give martin the right to assault him if in fact he did. In no way should Zimmerman ever have confronted the kid. Did Zimmerman go to the kid or did the kid have enough of being followed at a distance and go to Zimmerman? Gap, we don't know. We have the phone call account of martin with his girlfriend in which she states that Martin first confronted Zimmerman by yelling, "what are you following me for". Zimmerman than asks, "what are you doing here" and then shoving takes place apparently.

    but you're right. it was too perfect a situation for me not to jump in and defend something you obviously know is wrong. Thats not defending Zimmerman, but defending our due process so that people who are defending themselves do not have to worry about being arrested without just cause. You want him arrested so he can defend himself in court? Guilty until innocent? Typical. Our system doesn't work that way. The police need evidence before they can make an arrest. I wish to keep it that way.

    Zimmerman following this kid surely provoked this. But what we don't know is who actually confronted who and if Zimmerman was assaulted or not prior to the shooting. If he was, he was the victim and you wish to again blame the victim. If he wasn't assaulted and pulled his gun without provocation than I hope they are able to arrest and prosecute.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    3,467

    Re: Trayvon Martin Murder

    Quote Originally Posted by haveacigar View Post
    Nope. If he really has valid self-defense, make him prove that in a trial.
    so you're saying, regardless of evidence, the individual should be arrested and charged with a crime AND the burden/cost of defending oneself against such crime. A girl says she was raped, the accused should automatically be arrested? You're assaulted on the street in an attempted mugging and with your solid karate skills you effectively defend and injure the attacker. He claims otherwise. Witnesses support your position (or heck, maybe no witnesses) however you get arrested as well as he and you must defend yourself in a court of law. A car accident occurs as someone runs a red light and hits your vehicle. That person isn't buckled and is ejected from the cab and killed. You are arrested and must defend yourself.

    from someone with a legal background it surprises me that you're OK with police making arrests without evidence.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    45,249

    Re: Trayvon Martin Murder

    Quote Originally Posted by dickay View Post
    And yes, i did hear all the 911 calls. Please show me one that makes a clear case that this kid did not assault zimmerman, as he and the only eye witness yet to discuss what they saw just prior to the gun shot, have claimed.
    WHAT? The only eyewitness has said that the kid assaulted Zimmerman? Have you been following the story? There was one witness that just came out yesterday that claims Zimmerman was assaulted. That is NOT the only witness. It IS the only witness that has not backed up Trayvon Martin's side, though. Here's just one other witness.

    Quote Originally Posted by dickay View Post
    The many i've heard discuss, and you can even hear, someone screaming help.
    Yes, and you think that's ZIMMERMAN, the MAN WITH THE GUN, screaming for help? It's a possibility, but that sure doesn't sound like a grown man.

    Quote Originally Posted by dickay
    All of the phone calls heard discuss only that there is a fight taking place, someones yelling help, and someone was shot. The gap between that call and shot being fired is in question.
    Yeah, because that makes sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by dickay View Post
    so you're saying, regardless of evidence, the individual should be arrested and charged with a crime AND the burden/cost of defending oneself against such crime. A girl says she was raped, the accused should automatically be arrested? You're assaulted on the street in an attempted mugging and with your solid karate skills you effectively defend and injure the attacker. He claims otherwise. Witnesses support your position (or heck, maybe no witnesses) however you get arrested as well as he and you must defend yourself in a court of law. A car accident occurs as someone runs a red light and hits your vehicle. That person isn't buckled and is ejected from the cab and killed. You are arrested and must defend yourself.
    Some of these situations are so radically different that it's insane to have even attempted the analogy.

    Quote Originally Posted by dickay View Post
    from someone with a legal background it surprises me that you're OK with police making arrests without evidence.
    THERE IS EVIDENCE.
    ----------------------------------

    I guess it's possible for a large, grown man to feel threatened enough by a skinny kid with a bag of candy and a drink to justify shooting him, but.....I don't see it.

    I'm done discussing this with you. Your posts are riddled with contradictions (Did the 911 calls claim there was a shot, or did the shot happen "some time" after the calls? [btw, the fact is the gun shot is audible on one of the calls] Is there only one witness and that witness backs up Zimmerman, or are there various people with stories? etc.), a sense of the "facts" that I have not gotten from any credible news station, and a good dose of naivety.

    I'll leave you with this breakdown of the 911 calls, which jives perfectly with the calls that I have listened to. Nothing about the calls justifies any of Zimmerman's actions from the get-go. Zimmerman was in his car when Martin started running. Gee, I wonder why? Oh, I don't know...if some weird stranger was following you, I guess attempting to run is a totally crazy response. It is at this point that Zimmerman clearly exits his truck and begins to pursue Martin all while the 911 operator is telling him to not do so. Zimmerman escalated this situation. There is NO other way to interpret it. He was safely in his truck on the line with the 911 operator, while Trayvon Martin was aware he was being followed and was attempting to run away from the stranger that was tailing him. Zimmerman pursued him. Zimmerman created the conflict.

    A skinny little kid holding a bag of skittles and a bottle of iced tea is dead. That, in and of itself, is a grave tragedy and injustice. Trayvon Martin should be alive today, no ifs, ands or buts about it.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Savoy, IL
    Posts
    7,714

    Re: Trayvon Martin Murder

    Quote Originally Posted by dickay View Post
    so you're saying, regardless of evidence, the individual should be arrested and charged with a crime AND the burden/cost of defending oneself against such crime. A girl says she was raped, the accused should automatically be arrested? You're assaulted on the street in an attempted mugging and with your solid karate skills you effectively defend and injure the attacker. He claims otherwise. Witnesses support your position (or heck, maybe no witnesses) however you get arrested as well as he and you must defend yourself in a court of law. A car accident occurs as someone runs a red light and hits your vehicle. That person isn't buckled and is ejected from the cab and killed. You are arrested and must defend yourself.

    from someone with a legal background it surprises me that you're OK with police making arrests without evidence.
    There's plenty of evidence for an arrest, much less to bring it before a grand jury. As someone with a legal background, I'm not surprised you have no clue what you're talking about here. I'm not sure how the hypotheticals relate to this case at all, but arrests in each of those cases happen routinely. Believe it or not, innocent people have to defend themselves in legal proceeds quite often. That's especially true when their innocent conduct involves fatally shooting something.

    Maybe Zimmerman does have a valid self defense claim. The problem is that the police weren't even going to investigate or conduct any fact finding exercise whatsoever until the public outcry, and every bit of that reeks with racism. You can play devil's advocate all you want, but there's absolutely no excuse for the police's response to this case.
    Illini.

    Yeah I need a Winn-Dixie grocery bag full of money right next to the VIP section...

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    7,394

    Re: Trayvon Martin Murder

    If I shot someone - an unarmed minor - fatally - outside my house - and I WASN'T forced to defend myself in a trial - I would think there is something royally F'd up with the system.

    I guess that's where the Zimmermann defenders lose me. We should be all over this. A kid died. Why we're playing Zimmermann's lawyer automatically, when the guy isn't even under arrest, is F'ing ridiculous.

    Side note: why do so many shootings have to be fatal? Mainly in TV - CSI, all the crime dramas - but more so in real life. Does no one shoot to wound anymore? Thigh, arm? Gut? Why does everyone have to shoot to effing kill? Just a thought, but if I was going at someone and got a bullet in the thigh, I would probably cease attacking and become pretty docile at that point.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •