Well, this is Pete we're talking about here.Originally Posted by dps
When Obama signs something into law, it's the socialist communist kenyan dictator taking away our freedoms! When Bush signed something into law, the Democrats made him do it.
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Well, this is Pete we're talking about here.
When Obama signs something into law, it's the socialist communist kenyan dictator taking away our freedoms! When Bush signed something into law, the Democrats made him do it.
derp
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This. They seem incredibly unorganized.
Regardless how you view their motives/wants, if they can't get things more clearly organized, it's going to be difficult to give them any support/attention.
As for a 20 dollar minimum wage, lol. I always hear about how necessary it is to raise minimum wage, but for some reason, it just seems to escape those that want this what it would do to the economy as a whole. You think companies are just going to take the hit on payroll on their bottom lines and not pass those expenses on to their customers?
If we had to pay all of our employees 20 dollars an hour at Velosity (my electronics store) we would have to fire at least 2 of our 8 full timers, probably 3, and we would have to dramatically raise our hour bench rate in order to keep up with payroll.
Every dollar that we spend on individual payroll, we spend another 50 cents on taxes, not to mention the large amount of overheard. Labor is already massively expensive, which is a large reason why so many companies are focusing on finding the most efficient way possible to run their businesses, and get away from unnecessary labor costs.
Why don't they (whoever is wanting such a high minimum wage, not necessarily this group since it might not have been their demands) just come out and say they want everyone to have free money, and no one to make too much money in this country? It's rather utopian-like society with the ideals. But would never work in a free working economy. All it would do would create a larger shift from the rich to the poor.
o
Because it's not about one set of ideals or wants or demands or whatever. It's about restoring power to the people.
They're not having trouble gaining support or attention. As I said earlier in the thread, the overall message of ending the influence of money, the wealthiest 1% and corporations on politics and speaking out against political corruption is one that people of all different ideologies can agree on, even if they completely disagree on other major issues.
Get big business and money out of politics and let the direction of the country be decided by the people. That is what the Occupy movement, as a whole, wants.
Federal Anti-iGang Agent
Occupy Wall Street has officially been pigeon holed by the mainstream media.
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So? Almost everybody agrees, for example, that health care has become too expensive, but there's no consensus at all about what to do about it. If all the protesters are doing is attempting to draw attention to the problem, they're preaching to the choir. If they are actually putting forth certain suggestions about what to do about it, then they've done a very poor job of communicating those suggestions, and to the extent that anyone connected with or claiming to speak for the movement has put forth any suggestions, a lot of us don't agree with those suggestions.
o
It may be broad, but, again, the "solution" put forth is to restore decision-making to the people and take it away from the corporations and their puppet politicians. Once that (unfortunately, probably impossible) hurdle is passed, then focus on the individual issues. Healthcare costs a problem? The overall message of Occupy says: Let democracy decide what the solution to it is, not the insurance companies.
Maybe the main goal is to draw attention to the issue, but I don't think that's at all "preaching to the choir." Most people just don't give a crap, and this movement says to those in charge that, hey, a lot of us do give a crap and are sick of our country being controlled by a handful of multi-billionaires and maybe it will open the eyes of many of the apathetic masses.
BABBLE BABBLE BABBLE
Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.
Abraham Lincoln
BABBLE BABBLE BABBLE
Exactly. This is a good thing. There are alot of people (conservatives) who don't have a problem with our politicians being puppets. Just ask the conservative supreme court. Just like there are alot of people(conservatives) who feel our healthcare system is fine as is and doesn't need to be overhauled. Just ask Wisconsin Senator Ron Johnson & his supporters who campaigned on the premise that our healtchare was the best in the world and didn't have to be changed.
Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.
Abraham Lincoln
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Our healthcare is fine. It's our system of paying for it that's screwed up.
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unrelated, but love the signature quote michelleIsn't it ironic that the Red Sox spent $161 million building a team around the concept of sabermetrics, yet G.M. Theo Epstein and manager Terry Francona blame Boston's epic collapse not on statistics but on the lack of gold old team chemistry? Where is the algorithm for that?
I'm watching you.
“There’s a lot of stuff we wouldn’t have to clean up if the city provided basic human rights, like a Port-A-Potty,” said demonstrator Gene Wagner. “If you would’ve given us a Port-A-Potty 30 days ago, we would’ve maintained it ourselves.”
I Rustle Your Jimmies!
Yeh, I'm sure Gene Wagner would have jumped at the chance to clean a port a potty being used by hundreds (thousands?) of people (with a good chunk of them being hippies)
Federal Anti-iGang Agent
"Life, Liberty, The Pursuit of Happiness, and port-o-potties,"-Basic Human Rights
Im watching you
Just don't eat fiber and consume a lot of cheese if you plan on protesting noob.
Registered User
First off this has been a matter close to my heart for a very long time. All of us have had this discussion many times on this forum. As for the sentiment that this is a hippie unorganized movement: let me say this. Most movements have a figurehead, like the Obama campaign or Christians with Jesus. The fact that this movement does not is the very reason it has spread not only all over America but to other countries. They don't need a clear message on one topic and they learned this from the Tea Party.
Jeff, If all lower class people were getting paid $20 per hour how many more people would buy your services? I would bet you would have to hire more people at $20 per hour. You seem to like the trickle down concept but it has failed horribly. If the bulk of the US population had more money to spend it would be a tidal wave.
This is my vision of a fair United States. Tarrif the hell out of China imports and any country that uses slave labor, has poor woman rights, subjects its peoples, doesn't have environmental laws. Give massive tax cuts to companies who deal only with "Good" countries. Tax the hell out of companies that don't. Cut the military in half or more in peace time. Universal health care. Universal Education. Massive pay raises so the average family can have one parent at home with the children if they choose to do so. Stop arming the world. You may think I sound like a Christian here but as you know I'm not.
If you find yourself agreeing with Glenn Beck, odds are pretty good you're wrong.
Alloutwar
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