HoustonGM's Personal Hall of Fame

[HoustonGM]

With a lot of extra time while I wait to start rosters, I'm going to start going year by year and assembling "All Star teams," essentially the top 9-10% of players in each league, but broken down by position (ie. top 3 catchers, top 3 first basemen, top 8 pitchers, etc.). The numbers will adjust as I go back through time with less teams. Whenever far off in the future that I finish this project, I'll look through the numbers to see if I missed any particularly outstanding players when I first went through and picked my Hall of Fame. Maybe a player was underrated by overall WAR, for example, but was an "All Star" at his position 12 times - I think there's merit to rewarding such a player.

[HoustonGM]

So, I've gone through and picked All Star teams for each year in history, as well as MVPs, Cy Youngs, and the best player at each position each year. The goal of this is to reassess and see if I missed any players that should be in my personal Hall, as well as potentially catch any players that were "inducted" but shouldn't have been (although, to stick with the spirit of the real HoF, any "mistakes" will stay "inducted.").

My yearly All Star teams were made up of roughly 2-2.5 players per team in each league, and I tried to get a mix of 2-3 players per position, with a couple additional pitchers. Each year differed, of course, as sometimes there were, for example 4-5 great shortstops, but only 1-2 great catchers. My only hard and fast rule was that there must be at least 1 player for each position. I think I broke this rule once, for some year in the early 1900's or late 1800's (I forget which), where there were a bunch of excellent players that played mostly in left and center field, but do to the fluidity of outfielders at the time and how they often patrolled the various spots, nobody that performed at even a decent level while playing most of their games in RF.

First step was to see how the average Hall of Famer at each position checks out. I've rounded numbers in most cases. Note that Negro Leaguers were excluded from these averages.

Catchers appeared in an average of 10 All Star games, while being the top catcher in their league an average of 6.5 times throughout their career. Catcher MVPs are relatively rare, with HoF catchers being named MVP an average of 0.25 times throughout history.

First basemen appeared in an average of 11 All Star games, while being the best at their position an average of 5.25 times. They earned an average of 0.8 MVPs in their career.

Second basemen appeared in an average of 11 All Star games, and were the best at their position an average of 6.7 times. The average HoF second basemen won 1 MVP in their career.

Third basemen appeared in an average of 9.75 All Star games, which is the lowest average of all the positions besides pitcher. They also earned the top spot at their position an average of just 5.25 times in their career, tying with first basemen for the fewest in that category. They earned the MVP 0.5 times in their career.

Shortstops appeared in an average of 10.7 All Star games, and were the best at their position 5.6 times. Shortstops earned the MVP an average of 0.9 times in their career.

Left fielders made 10.4 All Star games, and took the top spot at their position 6 times in their career. They earned an average of 1.29 MVP awards.

Center fielders hold the highest averages across the board (in no small part due to the trio of Ty Cobb, Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays). They appeared in 11.7 All Star games, were the best at their position 6.9 times, and averaged 1.62 MVPs in their career.

Right fielders made an average of 11 All Star appearances, while playing at the highest level at their position 5.45 times. They earned 0.95 MVPs in their career.

A variety of factors lead to starting pitchers earning an average of just 8 All Star appearances in their careers (shorter careers, more competition for few AS spots, etc.). They did, however, earn an average of 1.04 MVPs in their career, although this number is surely boosted by the 19th century pitchers which amassed more value than position players due to the nature of the game in that time. Starting pitchers in the Hall earned an average of 2.5 Cy Young awards in their careers.

With only 2 relievers and 2 designated hitters in the Hall, their average numbers are somewhat irrelevant. As I didn't separate starters and relievers when it came to the All Star games, Hoyt Wilhelm and Goose Gossage each made just 1 appearance each. Hoyt Wilhelm won 1 Cy Young award, while Gossage did not win any. As for designated hitters, Frank Thomas and Edgar Martinez earned 9 and 11 All Star appearances, respectively. Thomas was the best at his position 7 times, while Edgar was the best at his 6 times. Frank Thomas won 1 MVP award, while Edgar did not win any.

Now, to review all the players.

[actionjackson]

Excellent stuff as usual HGM. Looking forward to the rest of this series.

[HoustonGM]

Here is a list of players whom fall just shy of my standards. For some, I've actually yet to make up my mind, so they all deserve further consideration. As of now, they're on the outside looking in, but I could be convinced on any of them:

C Ernie Lombardi, C Bill Freehan, C Wally Schang, 1B Norm Cash, 1B Ed Konetchy, 1B Jack Fournier, 2B Larry Doyle, 2B Nellie Fox, 2B Willie Randolph, 3B Ron Cey, 3B Larry Gardner, 3B Sal Bando, 3B Robin Ventura, 3B Pie Traynor, SS Joe Tinker, SS Luis Aparicio, SS Dave Concepcion, SS Travis Jackson, SS Dave Bancroft, SS Bert Campaneris, LF Bobby Veach, LF Jimmy Sheckard, CF Andre Dawson, CF Kenny Lofton, CF Bernie Williams, CF Edd Roush, CF Hack Wilson, CF Lip Pike, RF Mike Tiernan, RF Bobby Bonds, RF Jack Clark, SP Rick Reuschel, SP Kevin Appier, SP David Cone, SP Wes Ferrell

The following players have been inducted into HoustonGM's Personal Hall of Fame (consider these late additions like a Veteran's Committee selection!)

C Roger Bresnahan - A consistent All Star caliber player for a decade. He falls just shy off the HoF average for his position. He had an excellent bat (126 OPS+) and was versatile on the field. He'll be inducted with a San Francisco Giants cap.

1B Bill Terry - Overlooked the first time around. Terry had a somewhat short career, so he falls shy of the HoF average for All Star appearances at 1B, but he beats the HoF average by being the best at his position 6 times. He's an excellent "prime" candidate, as he was a consistent force from the mid 1920's to the mid 1930's, peaking as the NL MVP in 1931. Like Bresnahan, Terry will be inducted with a San Francisco Giants cap.

1B Joe Start - Start was one of the premier players of the early days of baseball. His overall WAR total of 32.2 seems very low for the Hall, but it's held down by the fact that he played during an era with a much shorter schedule. Normalized for a 162 game schedule, he produced roughly 70 WAR for his career. He played for the Providence Grays for most of his peak, so that's the hat he'll wear.

2B Fred Dunlap - Another 19th century star, Dunlap had an incredible peak as the clear best second basemen in the league for 7 years, including a sublime 1884 in the Union Association, which, while admittedly lesser competition, is still considered a major league. He provided a smattering of value outside of his prime, so I have him as deserving of induction. He came up with the Cleveland Blues organization, and amassed the most value with them, despite bouncing around for most of his career. That is the cap he'll wear.

3B Tommy Leach - Leach is an interesting case. He's sort of a "super utility" player, splitting his playing time at third base and all throughout the outfield, while also filling in up the middle. His career arc is very disjointed, with multiple highs and lows. I find the overall package worthy of a spot in the Hall. He made 9 All Star games (5 at 3B and 4 in CF) and was the best at his position 8 times (4 times at each at both his primary positions). He'll wear a Pittsburgh Pirates hat.

3B Stan Hack - It seems I may have underrated third basemen. From 1935 to 1945, Stan Hack was the clear top third basemen in the National League. Stan played his entire career for the Chicago Cubs.

3B Heinie Groh - Groh's excellence spanned a different pair of half-decades than Stan Hack. From 1915 to 1924, Groh was the top NL third basemen 7 times, and even tacked on a great year at 2B in 1914 to start this span. Groh will represent the Cincinnati Reds in the Hall.

SS Joe Sewell - With 10 outstanding years as the best player at his position, Sewell trumps the average HoF shortstop, so he surely belongs beside them. He had a truly legendary ability to put the ball in play. From his age 26 season to the end of his career, he never had a single season in which he struck out even 10 times. A shortstop for the majority of his career, he put up some excellent seasons even after sliding over to the hot corner. Sewell will wear a Cleveland Indians cap.

LF Pete Browning - Browning was the premier slugger of the American Association. He earned three batting titles and had a career 163 OPS+. He made 7 All Star appearances and was the best at his position 5 times. His career lasted only about a decade, but his bat was so incredible that it was a mistake to leave him out of the Hall. He'll wear a Louisville Colonels hat.

LF Charley Jones - Another 19th century player. Like Browning, he was an outstanding slugger. Splitting his career between the early National League and the American Association, Jones had a career OPS+ of 150. He has a similar HoF case to players like Ralph Kiner - a decade long prime featuring plenty of bat. He'll wear a Cincinnati Reds cap in the Hall.

CF Max Carey - An outstanding fielder and baserunner with a long career, I underrated Carey my first time through. With 10 All Star seasons, and 5 as the best center fielder in the NL, Carey is deserving of his spot in the Hall. It's a Pittsburgh Pirates cap for him.

CF Earl Averill - Another center fielder I underrated. He was the top AL center fielder in the 1930's. He'll wear a Cleveland Indians cap.

RF Reggie Smith - Despite some in-season durability issues, Smith's combination of a potent bat and plus glove earn him a spot in my Hall of Fame. An 8 time All Star, he was also the best in the league at his position 6 times. He'll wear a Boston Red Sox hat.

RF Dwight Evans - Another from the Boston Red Sox, I've come around on his HoF case. I have him as a 10 time All Star, which seems to be a solid in/out line when it comes to the HoF. He was also the best at his position 4 times, and was the 1981 AL MVP.

SP Billy Pierce - A 7 time All Star who twice was the best pitcher in his league, Pierce fits exactly at my Hall average. A deserving candidate that I had overlooked my first time through. He'll wear a Chicago White Sox cap.

SP Dave Stieb - The true best pitcher of the 1980's, despite how many sportswriters fawn over Jack Morris. I have him earning 7 All Star spots while taking home 4 Cy Young awards. No other player with 4 Cy Young awards wasn't inducted. He'll wear a Toronto Blue Jays cap.

SP Al Spalding - Despite a mere 8 year career, Al Spalding was THE player of the National Association, taking home 4 MVP awards on the back of his outstanding pitcher plus offensive prowess. A true two way player, Spalding earns his spot in my Hall on the back of his playing ability (whereas his work as a pioneer/executive is what earned him his spot in the real Hall). He'll wear a Boston Red Stockings cap.

With these 17 players, my Hall now has 241 inductees, just 3 shy of the Cooperstown total.

[actionjackson]

First of all congratulations on this very well balanced HoF. I'm sure a lot of effort went into it. At least 20 players at each position, almost 65 SP, 2 RP, and 2 DH. That is spectacular balance. I assume Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson are not in because of the ineligibility thing. I know they're in the Hall of Merit, but I guess you decided to cut it down to players who could've been voted into the real life HoF.

I've gotta ask about/stump for Rick Reuschel, Kenny Lofton (asked about earlier in the thread I know, but I think he belongs), Luis Tiant, David Cone, Vic Willis, Buddy Bell, Willie Randolph, Andre Dawson, Bret Saberhagen, Red Faber, Sal Bando, Kevin Appier, Wes Ferrell, and Bobby Bonds. Your HoF, your blood, sweat, and toil, but these are guys that I think are worthy. How close were they, and will you re-visit them again? Thanks again for all you do around here, even if this place isn't quite as busy as it once was.

[HoustonGM]

First of all congratulations on this very well balanced HoF. I'm sure a lot of effort went into it. At least 20 players at each position, almost 65 SP, 2 RP, and 2 DH. That is spectacular balance. I assume Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson are not in because of the ineligibility thing. I know they're in the Hall of Merit, but I guess you decided to cut it down to players who could've been voted into the real life HoF.

Correct. These are the players I would have in the Hall if I controlled it IRL. Rose and Jackson are banned, so they're out.

I've gotta ask about/stump for Rick Reuschel, Kenny Lofton (asked about earlier in the thread I know, but I think he belongs), Luis Tiant, David Cone, Vic Willis, Buddy Bell, Willie Randolph, Andre Dawson, Bret Saberhagen, Red Faber, Sal Bando, Kevin Appier, Wes Ferrell, and Bobby Bonds. Your HoF, your blood, sweat, and toil, but these are guys that I think are worthy. How close were they, and will you re-visit them again? Thanks again for all you do around here, even if this place isn't quite as busy as it once was.

Reuschel, Cone, Appier, Ferrell, and Saberhagen are all at the literal definition of borderline for me, as guys with 5-7 All Star seasons and a Cy Young award. Some pitchers just on the other side of the borderline are Kevin Brown, Whitey Ford, Stan Covelski, Nolan Ryan, Juan Marichal, and Fergie Jenkins, all of whom have a bit more bulk/slightly higher overall level of performance. Simply speaking, I like to see at least 3,000 IP, and a 125 ERA+ or so for a career of that length.

Luis Tiant and Vic Willis are a step below the above borderline players. Willis had two Cy Young seasons, but little outside of that (4 total AS seasons). Tiant's big issue was that he had major in-season durability issues during an era known for incredible workhorses. He never finished in the top 5 in his league in innings pitched. This lack of in-season bulk hurts him significantly in comparison to his peers (3 All Star seasons, 0 Cy Youngs).

Red Faber is an interesting case. He's right at the borderline but in a different fashion than the first group of pitchers. His 1920-1922 peak was legitimately amazing, with 2 Cy Youngs, but the rest of his career was marked by a similar issue as Tiant - lack of in-season bulk compared to his peers. Faber, however, provided significantly more bulk value than Tiant, at a slightly higher level as well. Upon further review, I think Faber belongs on the right side of the line, for reasons similar to other compilers like Don Sutton. Faber was consistently an above average pitcher for two decades, with little in the way of below average performance, and he tops that off with a peak where he was certainly the best pitcher in the AL for a few years, something Don Sutton, for example, can't claim.

Buddy Bell and Sal Bando are two similar third basemen in my eyes. They were consistently All Stars for the better part of a decade, but rarely the top of the class at their position. I have Bell with 7 all star seasons, but 0 times as the best third basemen in the league. Bando edges him out with 8 all star seasons and 2 times at the top of third basemen. I also tend to think that WAR slightly overrates third basemen of their era. I could easily be convinced that players like Pie Traynor and Bob Elliott belong in ahead of Bell and Bando, as they were both the top third basemen in their leagues for a half decade with some All Star seasons outside of that period. Along with Ron Cey and Larry Gardner, these six form the borderline at third base, but I have them each just on the wrong side.

I think Willie Randolph is criminally underrated overall. For 15 years, he could be counted on for a league average bat and plus defense at a premium position. I have him with 8 All Star appearances and 3 times as the top second basemen. Along with Larry Doyle and Nellie Fox, I could see going either way on him. I feel that second base is sufficiently represented, though, so I have them just on the outside.

Kenny Lofton has a very similar profile to Willie Randolph, except that I don't have him as being the best center fielder at any time during his career. Andre Dawson is similar too, except with a higher peak (twice as the best at his position). I just like to see a little more from outfielders, either in terms of being the best or in length of their career. Taking a look at similar center fielders in terms of All Star seasons.... Of the eligible players with 7-9 AS seasons (14 such players), I have exactly half of them as Hall of Famers - Larry Doby, Richie Ashburn, George Gore, Reggie Smith, Earl Averill, Duke Snider and Jimmy Wynn. Doby and Ashburn lead the pack with 9, and Doby had five seasons as the top center fielder, and Ashburn had 2 such seasons despite sharing an era and league with Willie Mays and Duke Snider. Like Doby, Gore, Smith and Averill also had at least half a decade's worth of seasons at the top of their position. Wynn is just shy with 4. Snider only had 2, but that comes with an MVP award as well. The players from that group that I have outside the Hall are Bernie Williams, Wally Berger, Cesar Cedeno, Kirby Puckett, and Chet Lemon. I think Lofton and Dawson fit more squarely in with that group than those that are inducted.

Bobby Bonds falls into a similar pack of right fielders as Lofton and Dawson do amongst center fielders. Bobby Abreu, Kiki Cuyler, Ken Singleton, Tony Oliva, Mike Tiernan, Ross Youngs and Jack Clark are similar players I have on the outside, while Gary Sheffield, Enos Slaughter, Sam Thompson, Harry Heilmann, Willie Keeler, Sammy Sosa, Tony Gwynn, Elmer Flick and King Kelly are similar players I have on the right side of the line. Like with the center fielders, those over the line have something over Bonds, like more seasons as the best right fielder, or a higher peak, or what have you.

All that being said, I'm always up for reconsidering players and nobody's ever 100% locked out of induction. And with that...

Red Faber's inducted with a White Sox cap!

[HoustonGM]

Realized that the Boston Red Stockings were the same franchise as the Atlanta Braves, so I've updated Al Spalding's cap.

[HoustonGM]

Interesting note - no player has ever won 3 MVPs (in my eyes) and not been a deserving Hall of Famer. Of the players with that many MVP selections, the only ones not in my Hall are Alex Rodriguez, Albert Pujols, and Mike Trout. A-Rod and Pujols are obviously locks when they're eligible. Mike Trout, though, has only played 3 full seasons... a truly historic start to his career. Likely the best start a player has ever had.

[cadmus2166]

I can see a case being made for Trout in 2012, but I just don't see how you make a legitimate case for him in 2013. Look at the stats side by side, and Cabrera seems the obvious choice. Much more production in 34 less AB. http://www.baseball-reference.com/aw...13.shtml#ALmvp

[HoustonGM]

I can see a case being made for Trout in 2012, but I just don't see how you make a legitimate case for him in 2013. Look at the stats side by side, and Cabrera seems the obvious choice. Much more production in 34 less AB. http://www.baseball-reference.com/aw...13.shtml#ALmvp

Defense and baserunning.

Cabrera was the better pure hitter both years, but he was a subpar defensive third basemen and provided no value on the basepaths. Trout, on the other hand, was an above average defensive center fielder with a lot of baserunning value.

Cabrera the better hitter, Trout the better overall player.

[actionjackson]

Thanks for the long response HGM. Glad I was able to slide one in there in your HoF. Definitely not who I was expecting, but hey beggars can't be choosers amirite? That response also demonstrates to me how much work you put into this. You certainly know your sh!t, and back it up with reasoned analysis. Great stuff.

[HoustonGM]

The lower rung of my Hall:

Bobby Doerr, Ken Boyer, Hughie Jennings, Charlie Keller, Jim Wynn, Dave Winfield, Red Faber, Don Sutton, Ted Lyons

[actionjackson]

Hey HGM. Couple of questions: Which WAR do you use to select your MVPs, CYAs, ROYs, ASG berths, best player at each position etc: fWAR or rWAR (B-Ref WAR)? How do you go about determining how many players belong on each All-Star Team? I ask because the roster size for the original game in 1933 was 18 players for one of the teams (can't remember which one off the top of my head), and just last year there were 40 AL players and 41 NL players. Maybe you put the top two position players in each league on, plus a certain amount of pitchers, but things sure have changed throughout history. How many players would be on a 19th century team for example? How many would be on the most recent teams? Just curious.

[HoustonGM]

Hey HGM. Couple of questions: Which WAR do you use to select your MVPs, CYAs, ROYs, ASG berths, best player at each position etc: fWAR or rWAR (B-Ref WAR)? How do you go about determining how many players belong on each All-Star Team? I ask because the roster size for the original game in 1933 was 18 players for one of the teams (can't remember which one off the top of my head), and just last year there were 40 AL players and 41 NL players. Maybe you put the top two position players in each league on, plus a certain amount of pitchers, but things sure have changed throughout history. How many players would be on a 19th century team for example? How many would be on the most recent teams? Just curious.

For WAR, I looked at both Baseball-Reference and Fangraphs. If there was a clear consensus, I went with it, otherwise, I looked deeper at the individual players and made a choice myself. I also greatly favored B-R WAR when it came to pitchers, especially back further in history where FIP was much less of an indicator of a pitcher's value, IMO.

As for number of players on each All-Star team, it's roughly 2-2.5 players per team in the MLB. I started 2014 with 34 all stars, as that's the number of active players on the real life All Star team (40 and 41 include the injured players, players named to the team that opted out, etc.). That made for 68 all stars, or 2.26 per team. I kept that number up to each expansion year, and then generally took off 2 players per expansion team. For 1997, for example, I had 32 All Stars per league (64 total). I kept the numbers in each league equivalent, even though there were often times 1-2 more teams in one of the leagues.

The number of players per team generally increased slightly the further back you go in history, as I tried to construct the teams so that at least an average of 2 players per position made it, while also having at least 4 pitchers. So, for 8 team leagues like 19th century NL (for the most part), there were 20 per year, so 2.5 players per team.

Recent years tended to have 3 players per position, with 6-8 pitchers. As I just said, throughout history I tried to keep it at at least 2 players per position and at least 4 pitchers. There were also years where I deviated from the numbers per position. Sometimes, leagues had 5-6 great shortstops while only having 1 or 2 great first basemen, so I adjusted numbers a bit to fit in as many All Star caliber players I could (~4+ WAR). I always made sure to have at least 1 player per position, though. What positions got extra players sometimes deviated.

I think there was one instance of a year where I failed to include a left fielder - 1887 NL. There could have been other years, but I doubt it. 1887 was such because Hardy Richardson was the top player that played 40% or more of his games in left field, but he played 5 more games at 2B, so he made it as a 2B. George Wood was the next best left fielder, at 1.6 WAR, but I had 4 other outfielders ranked ahead of him (Sam Thompson, Jim Fogarty, King Kelly and Paul Hines - 3 RF and 1 CF), as well as a glut of excellent SS (Monte Ward, Jack Glasscock, Sam Wise, and Jack Rowe, plus Ned Williamson who failed to make the cut), so I left off Wood.

[ragecage]

I remember Keith Olberman did a piece on Herman Long arguing that he should be in the Hall.

Looking at his offensive numbers, I was sort of meh on it. He did appear to have more power during the dead ball era and as a SS that is pretty impressive. Defensively is where he starts to pop out. Ranks 9th all time in put outs, however ranks 1st all time in errors. That tells me his range has to be really absurd for that position. What do you think?