Which player found guilty of taking steroids/ PEDs would shock you the most?

[Jeffy25]

Ozzie, Ripken and Gwynn I would be very surprised about personally.

[HoustonGM]

interesting, so basically we shouldn't worry about HGH because the performance enhancing capabilities are little to none.

According to multiple clinical studies, yes. (Note: This is NOT about steroids. HGH is a very different substance and I think most people don't realize or know that.)

[Jeffy25]

and it's very expensive, unhealthy, and basically only helps you create mass, not muscle.

[kenny1234]

Yet players, with access to quite good medical advice of their own, chose to take HGH with the intention of either recovering from injury, or improving performance. They obviously expected to gain some benefit.

[DarthJaker]

Seriously??? Pujols never took roids or anything else its a no brainer

[HoustonGM]

Yet players, with access to quite good medical advice of their own, chose to take HGH with the intention of either recovering from injury, or improving performance. They obviously expected to gain some benefit.

The studies say nothing of it's healing properties (although I haven't read them in a while, but I don't recall them discussing it), just it's performance-enhancing properties. And I'm sure they did expect to gain some benefit. That doesn't mean that they did, though.

[free2131]

for sure not Cal.. because he did take HGH (I mean we've known this forever)

Oh, we do? Considering that Ripken was my idol and I've read several biographies and every article I can on him and never found ANY credible person say ANYTHING about him using, maybe you can show me some prove before you decided to just casually throw about accusations like that.

Looking over this list, though....I'd say that Cal Ripken and Nolan Ryan are the two players on this list that I'd be the LEAST surprised about.

Why Ripken? Because of the consecutive game streak? If he was taking something, he would be more likely to have a minor injury that would make him be out for a day or two. He also had a normal career curve and peak, and never seemed to add any major muscle mass.

[HoustonGM]

Why Ripken? Because of the consecutive game streak? If he was taking something, he would be more likely to have a minor injury that would make him be out for a day or two. He also had a normal career curve and peak, and never seemed to add any major muscle mass.

He played through the '80s and '90s every single day. I find it hard to believe that, at the least, he never popped an amphetamine pill.

[actionjackson]

Links on HGH that I think people need to read:

http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomi...er-should-you/
http://dberri.wordpress.com/2007/04/...rowth-hormone/
http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomi...h-in-baseball/

Thankyou for "injecting" some sanity into the discussion HGH, er I mean HGM.

[Jeffy25]

He played through the '80s and '90s every single day. I find it hard to believe that, at the least, he never popped an amphetamine pill.

I do based on character alone. He doesn't have the character type to do that sort of thing....this is the same guy that won't let a child know that he drinks a bud light....if he is that afraid of allowing the image a kid has of a grown man drinking a beer, imagine how he would react if he took roids or something and the impression it would have on a child.

Ripken is one of the few that didn't play the game for personal gain, but played for everyone else, and everything else. He was not a self serving individual, I find it very hard to believe that he would do anything less.

[free2131]

He played through the '80s and '90s every single day. I find it hard to believe that, at the least, he never popped an amphetamine pill.

I find it hard to believe he did, though intellectually I can accept that it is a possibility. Unless I have 100% proof, I wouldn't believe he did.

[HoustonGM]

I do based on character alone. He doesn't have the character type to do that sort of thing....this is the same guy that won't let a child know that he drinks a bud light....if he is that afraid of allowing the image a kid has of a grown man drinking a beer, imagine how he would react if he took roids or something and the impression it would have on a child.

Ripken is one of the few that didn't play the game for personal gain, but played for everyone else, and everything else. He was not a self serving individual, I find it very hard to believe that he would do anything less.

I'd just retort that with: "You don't know him."

I find it hard to believe he did, though intellectually I can accept that it is a possibility. Unless I have 100% proof, I wouldn't believe he did.

I don't believe that he did. I just wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he did.

[HoustonGM]

I do based on character alone. He doesn't have the character type to do that sort of thing....this is the same guy that won't let a child know that he drinks a bud light....if he is that afraid of allowing the image a kid has of a grown man drinking a beer, imagine how he would react if he took roids or something and the impression it would have on a child.

He allowed his likeness and name to be put on wine.

[Jeffy25]

well score one for HGM.

I still don't BELIEVE his character would allow himself to do that....but maybe so.

of course the question was: who would you be most surprised about. and we just have a difference in opinions.

[dickay]

interesting, so basically we shouldn't worry about HGH because the performance enhancing capabilities are little to none.

...and so is female fertility drugs lmfao. does anyone question if Manny was using something other than them? or even better...why female fertility drugs are on the banned list???

its simple to connect the dots. HGH, like the female fertility drugs alone do very little to enhance capabilities. However, if taken along with anabolic steroids or other cocktails, or taken in between roid cycles it can be extremely beneficial.

http://www.steroid.com/Human-Growth-Hormone.php

I don't have alot of time, but a quick search yielded the above link on this topic. Its a bit too scientific for my liking, but there are dozens of links you can find to confirm this;

It should also be noted that most athletes utilizing HGH are using it in a "cocktail" with (at least) anabolic steroids, and usually with IGF, thyroid meds, and other goodies such as an Aromatase Inhibitor.

Let´s discuss exactly why this is.

Most people who are taking the plunge into HGH use have reached a dead end with their use of anabolics, and need to push through that wall. I´m sure you´ve heard about the synergistic combination of using HGH along with Anabolic Steroids, IGF, insulin and T3 (* usually synthroid, a thyroid medication). The reason is that when these hormones are used correctly together, they´ll produce a large amount of synergy, the insulin is able to shuttle nutrients into your muscle, the thyroid hormone increases your fat-burning capability, the IGF will cause muscle growth as well as helping to grow new cartilage (thus preventing injury), and the anabolic steroids like testosterone, specifically (in addition to being anabolic) can increase IGF-1, in muscle tissue(11), and maybe even increase your body´s ability to use it. Also, usually, an increased amount of IGF usually tells your body to stop producing HGH, but testosterone actually blunts this part of the Negative FeedBack Loop (12)! And the addition of an Aromatase Inhibitor will also stop conversion of testosterone into estrogen; estrogen reduces IGF levels.(13)(14) Finally, the HGH does, well everything I just spent the last few pages telling you about!

Thus, IGF, Testosterone (and of course other steroids), Insulin, thyroid meds, and HGH will all combine to produce a pretty damned effective fat-burning and muscle building cycle! You know what else? HGH is virtually undetectable on any sort of currently used drug-screening tests. HGH, Insulin, Thyroid meds, and IGF may also be used pretty safely by those who may be subject to drug screening tests, or as a non-HPTA suppressive "bridge" between cycles.

Finally, I´ll tell you how I´d take HGH, personally. There was a study done on continuous HGH use vs. every other day injections (ED vs. EOD for the sake of brevity), with a equal total weekly dose. Although it´s counterintuitive, every other day injections produced better total growth in the kids in this (2 and 4 year long) study. Take a look at these graphs:

Growth velocity of children treated with alternate day HGH (the darker bars) or with a daily HGH regimen before, during, and 2 yr after stopping therapy. Values are the mean ± SD. *, P < 0.05; **, P < 0.01.(10)

Here´s another:

Pretreatment and cumulative 4-yr growth velocity of children treated with alternate day HGH ( the darker bars) or with a daily HGH regimen. Values are the mean ± SD. *, P < 0.00 (10)

Shooting HGH every other day more accurately replicates the pulsile frequency of HGH, and thus gave better results for growth (height) deficient children, HGH pulsatility is necessary for proper function of the HGH receptor.(10) Dosing in the EOD nature reduces incidence of any sort of withdrawal problems associated with normal HGH use, including regression or retardation of growth after cessation of therapy.

Therefore, I feel very comfortable speculating that the use of HGH in this manner, which more closely simulates the natural secretion pattern of it, allows the HGH receptors and the rest of the body to more efficiently recover from it, and this will result in much more muscle growth over time (although height was examined in the previous study). My recommendations therefore are 2 shots per day of .028iu/kg of bodyweight, taken every other day, for a minimum of 3months, and preferably for 2-3x that long, and preferably with the other synergistic compounds we´ve just taken a look at.