Andre Dawson - lone HoF inductee

[Jeffy25]

He could've gotten 1 less vote and made it still, but 2 less votes he would've been out.

wonder what kind of campaign was put on for him based on that large jump at the end.

[Jeffy25]

Noble
Herschbeck said Alomar apologized to him, Noble replied saying that it still offended him and that no body apologized to him.


I will allow you guys to reply to that on your own.

[HoustonGM]

it's noble sharing his reasons for leaving Alomar off the ballot

He needs to quit his ridiculous moralizing and stupid reasoning. Yes, Alomar sucked with the Mets. What's that have to do with voting for him this year, even though you agree his overall career makes him a Hall of Famer? It's ridiculous.

[Jeffy25]

and he is defending moments where Alomar "didn't care"

[Jeffy25]

He needs to quit his ridiculous moralizing and stupid reasoning. Yes, Alomar sucked with the Mets. What's that have to do with voting for him this year, even though you agree his overall career makes him a Hall of Famer? It's ridiculous.

yup.

[Jeffy25]

Exact quotes

The best we’ve got so far is from Marty Noble of MLB.com, who prefaces his ****ing argument by calling Alomar “the best second baseman since Joe Morgan – and probably the best ever.”

However, he “doesn't deserve my vote for at least one year because of two spitting instances,” Noble explains. “We're all aware of the one involving John Hirschbeck. I don't care that Hirschbeck forgave Alomar for spitting at him; I haven't. It was unacceptable behavior. And during his 222-game tour with the Mets, Alomar repeatedly spit in the face of the game by playing with conspicuous apathy.”

from http://www.drunkjaysfans.com/2010/01/alomar-waits.html

[HoustonGM]

Heyman or Reynolds should bring up how Babe Ruth punched an umpire or how Juan Marichal pummeled Johnny Roseboro's head with a bat.

[Jeffy25]

This is a guy who became a famous writing for making coloring books

[Jeffy25]

Heyman or Reynolds should bring up how Babe Ruth punched an umpire or how Juan Marichal pummeled Johnny Roseboro's head with a bat.

haha, it looks like all three guys were just very annoyed with Noble...I'm assuming you watched that interview?

[haveacigar]

http://www.spartantailgate.com/forum...hall-fame.html

I'm posting as Truman Capote.

And no, it is not an intelligent baseball forum. It's a veritable wasteland of baseball knowledge, and quite often I'm attacked for trying to raise its profile.

[HoustonGM]

haha, it looks like all three guys were just very annoyed with Noble...I'm assuming you watched that interview?

The last half of it I guess. I turned it on when I read your post.

[metsguy234]

This is a guy who became a famous writing for making coloring books

Jeffy is clearly the superior writing to Marty Noble.

And... why does it matter as long as Noble votes for him next year?

Although... Noble's ballot was Dave Parker and Barry Larkin- that's just silly.

[200tang]

And no, it is not an intelligent baseball forum. It's a veritable wasteland of baseball knowledge, and quite often I'm attacked for trying to raise its profile.

I like your description. I'm pumped for Book of Eli now.

[Jeffy25]

Jeffy is clearly the superior writing to Marty Noble.

And... why does it matter as long as Noble votes for him next year?

Although... Noble's ballot was Dave Parker and Barry Larkin- that's just silly.

I just don't see why if the guy is a hall of famer, then why are you "punishing him" and making him wait a year because of something he did that you take offense to?

If you're gonna vote for him one day, vote for him now....it's terrible logic.

[actionjackson]

He's getting my HOF vote if he played 2 or 3 more seasons at his current pace. My important hypothetical one. Right after I recover from the beating I'm gonna get from AJ for not voting for Larry Walker.

No beat down required. Just the facts man.

5 hitters in the history of the Rockies circa 1993 through 2005 have had a significant amount of plate appearances with both the Rockies and teams other than the Rockies and have been able to hit to at least an OPS+ of 100 with the Rockies (otherwise [*ahem* Eric Young, Walt Weiss etc] they would be wasting our time). The Blake Street 5 are Andres Galarraga, Vinny Castilla, Dante Bishit, Ellis Burks, and Larry Walker. The humidor was put to work in 2002, but the Batting/Pitching park effects remained kind of crazy until they started to settle down in 2006. First up, their WAR per 600 PA with teams other than the Rockies:

Galarraga: 1.48
Castilla: 0.27
Bishit: 0.05 (see what I mean? but wait for it, it gets better )
Burks: 3.64
Walker: 4.30

Now during the time when they called the shooting gallery known as Coors Field/Mile High Stadium home:

Galarraga: 2.44
Castilla: 2.04
Bishit: 0.25 (told ya - hahaha )
Burks: 3.16 (Hmm...he went down)
Walker: 5.52

Now let's mash all 5 of them together, just for fun. WAR per 600 PA:

with other teams: 2.21
with Rockies: 2.70

Is there an inflationary effect? Probably. Is it statistically significant? I don't know, I'm not a Stats major, but if I had to guess, I'd say probably, but I don't think it's as significant as you're assuming it to be HAC. You see, you have to factor in the fact that the 3 OF in this sample would have to run 9 miles in a spacious outfield to track down fly balls and line drives that are hit harder and further because of the thin air. The outfielders will probably take some defensive hitpoints, but that's just a guess. If they did, it would push their WAR downward. I don't know whether or not the ball would be on Galarraga or Castilla quicker at the corners, but I'd assume not, due to the shorter distance involved. Also, how much of a running game would the Rockies have employed during their games in Denver? It makes sense to not run into outs when you're going to score a gazillion runs with the long ball. The baserunning component of their WAR probably takes a hit here too, but again that's just a guess.

As for Walker, well 4.3 WAR per full year is all-star calibre and that's what he did when he wasn't with the Rockies. With them he became an absolute beast. He was there from his age 28 through age 37 (until he was dealt to the Cards mid-season) seasons. If a player is to make the HOF or have a legit case for it (as Walker does) he has to have great seasons not only in his 20s, but also into his late 30s and he did that. Bye the bye just for comparisons sake: WAR per 600 PA:

non-Rockies Walker: 4.30
Rockies Walker: 5.52
Overall Walker: 5.01
The Hawk: 3.16

Not...even...close. Hawk: Hall of Very Good (not even as good as Ellis f**cking Burks on a per 600 PA basis); Walker: Hall of Fame.