Andre Dawson - lone HoF inductee

[HoustonGM]

One can argue that since it's the Hall of FAME it should be for the most FAMOUS players, not necessarily for the best ones.

Sure, one can argue that, but that'd be stupid and wrong.

[haveacigar]

One can argue that since it's the Hall of FAME it should be for the most FAMOUS players, not necessarily for the best ones.

I've never heard anyone involved with the process argue that. They certainly could, but they haven't.

[HoustonGM]

I've never heard anyone involved with the process argue that. They certainly could, but they haven't.

I have. Multiple times.

[kenny1234]

I hate that I'm agreeing with Metsguy, but I don't see how it is stupid or wrong. I can't find any direction on who is supposed to get into the Hall of Fame, (like the Cy Young direction to name the best pitcher of the year, or the MVP to name the player most valuable to his team), and people can vote however they want. There are a variety of reasons to honour particular players - and baseball skill/value doesn't have to be the only basis for induction.

[HoustonGM]

I hate that I'm agreeing with Metsguy, but I don't see how it is stupid or wrong. I can't find any direction on who is supposed to get into the Hall of Fame, (like the Cy Young direction to name the best pitcher of the year, or the MVP to name the player most valuable to his team), and people can vote however they want. There are a variety of reasons to honour particular players - and baseball skill/value doesn't have to be the only basis for induction.

"Voting: Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played."

"Fame" isn't one of the criteria, and I think it's quite obvious that every "Hall of Fame" isn't meant to honor someone for being famous but rather honor someone (and confer fame UPON) for being excellent at or important to whatever the particular Hall is for.

[Jeffy25]

veterans committee rules

couldn't find writers rules

being the most famous is retarded

who wants a hall of fame full of Jacoby Ellsbury's (trying to think of ovrtly loved players)

Rules enacted in August 2001 provided that the Veterans Committee would be expanded from its previous 15 members, elected to limited terms, to include the full living membership of the Hall, including recipients of the Ford C. Frick Award and J. G. Taylor Spink Award. Elections for players retired over 20 years would be held every other year, with elections of non-players (managers, umpires and executives) held every fourth year on a "composite ballot". No candidates were elected from either ballot in 2003, nor from the players' ballot in 2005, leading to criticism from the press and public that the voters were being too restrictive in evaluating candidates. The Committee voted in 2007 on players who were active no later than 1985. Candidates were eligible for the composite ballot if they had been retired from the sport for five years, or if they were at least 65 years of age and had been retired for at least six months.

The Committee voted on players again in preparation for the 2009 inductions, but that election was conducted under significantly different rules enacted in July 2007.[14] The most important changes were:

* The players ballot was restricted to players whose careers started in 1943 or later.
* The sole voting body was composed of living Hall of Fame members. Frick and Spink Award winners, who are considered "honorees", would no longer vote on the players ballot.
* The number of players to be considered was considerably reduced.
* A separate election was held for the 2009 inductions, to be repeated every five years thereafter, for players whose careers started before 1943. The voting body was a 12-member panel selected by the Hall of Fame Board.

For a more complete discussion of the changes, see the Veterans Committee article.

The Committee was scheduled to vote on non-players in 2011, but the July 2007 rules also dramatically affected the voting process for non-players. A 16-member panel of Hall of Famers, executives, and veteran media members voted on managers and umpires again prior to the 2008 inductions. A separate 12-member panel, drawn from the same sources as the managers/umpires panel but with a greater concentration of executives, simultaneously voted on executives. Both panels will vote in the future for inductions in even-numbered years.[15]

[gRYFYN1]

"Voting: Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played."

"Fame" isn't one of the criteria, and I think it's quite obvious that every "Hall of Fame" isn't meant to honor someone for being famous but rather honor someone (and confer fame UPON) for being excellent at or important to whatever the particular Hall is for.

I agree... it isn't intended to be a hall of famous people, but rather people made famous by being memorialized there.

[Jeffy25]

Marty Noble is defending his answer on mlb network


and basically kept saying he is the best second basemen he has seen since Morgan....and plans to vote for him next year, but didn't think he derserved it because of two spitting incidents.

[Jeffy25]

I just don't see why would you vote for him in the future, but won't now.

you say he is a hall of famer, but you leave him off the ballot?

He says that because Alomar spit on an umpire ON the field, some of the assholes in the hall he said, did bad things off the field. Alomar did this on the field.

and that Alomar became conceded in his later years as a Met and that he just didn't think he deserved to be in the hall yet.





















But he does next year Marty?

[ragecage]

I just don't see why would you vote for him in the future, but won't now.

you say he is a hall of famer, but you leave him off the ballot?

Maybe it has to do with that integrity thing I guess.

[Jeffy25]

My list of hall of famers has barely wavered in the last couple of years since I started paying more attention, if it was my job to have a vote, I sure as hell would make sure that I did all my research before I casted my votes and I doubt it would waiver much throughout their lifetime on the ballot.

[Jeffy25]

of course that is easier to say since I don't have a vote I guess.

[haveacigar]

More hilariousness on another forum about Morris/Blyleven:

You want to know why you cannot figure this out? Because you do not and have not watched baseball but instead you look at a bunch of historical stats. Morris was hands down a better pitcher than Blyleven. Morris was an ace on more than one team. Bert was never considered to be an ace at any time in his career.

Emphasis added.

[Jeffy25]

More hilariousness on another forum about Morris/Blyleven:



Emphasis added.

And what did you say?

Because I have a slew of replies available

[haveacigar]

my response:

Maybe you should try saying something that's true, instead of telling me how much baseball I have or haven't watched.

Bert was never an ace? You should ask the 79 Pirates about that (WS champs). He was also the ace on a lot of other Twins, Rangers, and Indians teams in the early to mid 80s. I may not have watched a Morris start in his prime. I'm not sure you've seen either pitcher's career numbers....ever.

Morris was such an unquestionable ace in 84 the ****ing closer got all the Cy Young and MVP votes.