Selective Application of Statistics

[HoustonGM]

So not to smash any sabermetric toes, but when WARP and VORP and UZR start being talked about, I almost expect you to figure out how to put a civilization on the moon. But instead you seem to make a beautiful game with so much history and and stories beyond numbers...into nothing but a bunch of numbers. kinda sad, but I guess that is progress

Evaluating players using statistics does not have anything to do with getting rid of the history or stories. SABR, where the term sabermetrics comes from, is the Society for American Baseball Research, and it's contributed an absolute TON to the history and story side of things. Sabermetrics is just simply the search for a better understanding of the game, and statistics contribute to that.

The whole "turning it into nothing but a bunch of numbers" is simply a phony strawman.

[kenny1234]

Sabermetrics is just simply the search for a better understanding of the game, and statistics contribute to that.

I think a more correct phrase would be - "Sabermetrics is the search for a better understanding of the game through statistics." Statistics aren't just a contribution to sabermetrics - they are sabermetrics.

That said, the people that tend to be sabermetrically inclined also tend to have a deep interest in the history of baseball outside of the statistics. So the basic point that you are making here:

The whole "turning it into nothing but a bunch of numbers" is simply a phony strawman.

is valid.

When sabermetrics are done poorly, either in terms of statistics, or in terms of explanation, it seems common to dismiss those elements that haven't been measured. But that isn't a fault of sabermetrics as a field, it is usually the fault of a poor explanation.

[actionjackson]

Anything that helps advance our understanding of baseball and our ability to analyze it more shrewdly is a good thing. It does nothing to reduce the beauty of the game, in fact it makes it all the more beautiful. You can analyze at an extreme depth using complicated metrics, look at it from afar, using more simplified ones, or gasp at watching a Jose Reyes type gazelle type fly around the bases and slide in safely at third with a triple. You can find out where all the modern rules came from: we can thank King Kelly (the original of the Billy Martin/Earl Weaver archetype) for a lot of them as he pushed the boundaries of the rules and I'm sure tried the patience of many an ump trying to find any way to win.

We can go from the subjective: as a Blue Jay fan I will never forget Joe Carter's World Series walkoff HR in 1993, or Tom Cheek's call of it for that matter...*goosebumps* every time...to the objective in a heartbeat. As in, thanks for the memory Joe, but I will never allow it to cloud my judgment that he was in fact one of the most overrated mediocre players to ever put on the uniform. In spite of that moment, whenever the movement to deify Joe rises up in these parts, as often happens, I'll be at the front of the line to club it like a baby seal. (F U Paul McCartney and PETA)

[metsguy234]

HGM is the only one that I think doesn't really get any sort of sentimental feel about the game on here. Everyone else seems to have some good baseball memories, or are at least a fan of a team. He's just all about the stats. Pretty sad.

[gRYFYN1]

well the reason that a plethora of stats to cause issues is the tendancy of people to lean on a narrow point of view.

And that just what this is about.. the more ways we have to look at statistic the more statistics there are to ignore.

But anyone who ignores any statistic is foolish.. instead there is a constant attempt to make every stat more meaningful.

[actionjackson]

HGM is the only one that I think doesn't really get any sort of sentimental feel about the game on here. Everyone else seems to have some good baseball memories, or are at least a fan of a team. He's just all about the stats. Pretty sad.

Um no. If he were just all about the stats he would be in actuarial science or he would be an accountant. You've got to love baseball to examine it as thoroughly as he does. But you're just on a Christmas trolling expedition, so I don't know why I bother.

[metsguy234]

Um no. If he were just all about the stats he would be in actuarial science or he would be an accountant. You've got to love baseball to examine it as thoroughly as he does. But you're just on a Christmas trolling expedition, so I don't know why I bother.

He's not a fan of any team. AFAIK he's never played baseball. He seems to be in it for the numeros.

[kenny1234]

He's not a fan of any team. AFAIK he's never played baseball. He seems to be in it for the numeros.

Somewhat like HGM I think, I'm not a huge fan of any team - I'd like the Jays to win because they are local, but I really don't care that much. And I did play as a kid, but stopped at the end of Little League because I preferred/was better at other sports.

That doesn't mean that I'm not a fan of the game - to me the best baseball fans are those that love the game regardless of who is playing. And there is a huge distance between knowing the statistics, and not knowing anything else about the game.

But as action said, I'm not sure why I bother when the Christmas trolling expedition has obviously begun.

[HoustonGM]

HGM is the only one that I think doesn't really get any sort of sentimental feel about the game on here. Everyone else seems to have some good baseball memories, or are at least a fan of a team. He's just all about the stats. Pretty sad.

First of all, you have no right to tell me how and what I should derive enjoyment from. Second of all, you're flat out wrong.

[HoustonGM]

He's not a fan of any team. AFAIK he's never played baseball. He seems to be in it for the numeros.

I have played baseball before, stopped in Little League because I wasn't all that good, but that's completely and utterly irrelevant to everything. You don't have to have played a sport to enjoy it.

If I was "just in it for the numbers", I wouldn't be a fan of baseball. I'd be a fan of math. There's no way that anybody who delves into the game as much as I or any other "stathead" does doesn't love the game. That's why the whole "making the game about numbers" thing is a completely absurd notion. If you don't love the game of baseball, you're not going to get so deep into it. Why would I spend so much time following the game, analyzing the game, playing simulations of the game, reading articles about the game, etc. if I didn't love the game?

Seriously, shut up and quit your stupid ass trolling.

[metsguy234]

It just pisses me off how HGM is sometimes. I'm sorry to everyone else.

[HoustonGM]

It just pisses me off how HGM is sometimes. I'm sorry to everyone else.

I'm sorry that I am different from you. I know how people not being just like you pisses you off, but that's something you need to grow up and get over.

[metsguy234]

I'm sorry that I am different from you. I know how people not being just like you pisses you off, but that's something you need to grow up and get over.

Stop picking on me please.

[HoustonGM]

Stop picking on me please.

Picking on you? LOL. You come in here and randomly start trolling ME. If you don't want to be "picked on", don't troll.

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

You come in here and randomly start trolling ME. If you don't want to be "picked on", don't troll.

Don't pay any attention to his obvious trolling and inflammatory comments. It makes you look just as bad as it does him.