Pierre vs. Podsednik

[yomamaimontv]

OK, I admit I am more of a casual baseball fan,especially compared to the nuts on here! I bought BM and enjoyed it and now I am taking more of an interest in baseball. I'm starting to learn more of the so called sabr stats, although mostly I just get a headache. I usually judge players based on traditional things like RBI, HR, AVG, etc. I see that kinda thing gets you ridiculed on here real quick!! So I was reading in the paper about the White Sox pickup of Juan Pierre. The White Sox GM was saying he thought of Pierre as an upgrade over Podsednik. He sighted him as being a superior leadoff hitter, better fielder, better baserunner and having alot of "grit an determinaton." He also went on to say that Pierre was Ozzie's kind of player. Now I was wondering what you guys thought? How much of an upgrade is Pierre over Podsednik? If he even is an upgrade. My understanding money wise is they would've cost about the same since LA is paying a big portion of Pierre's salary and Podsednik was looking for a multi year deal. So money shouldn't factor into it.

[FloydtheBarber]

Neither of them are very good, actually. They both dont deserve starting jobs, and their offensive success is based totally on average and speed. I would have taken Podsednik merely because he would have been cheaper contract wise, though I would prefer not to use either. They are both miscast as leadoff hitters, as they don't walk much.

[HoustonGM]

They're pretty much the exact same player. And not very good. Quality fourth outfielders, below average starters.

[yomamaimontv]

What are the stats you guys are using to judge this?

[TheNamelessPoet]

obP for 1

[FloydtheBarber]

What are the stats you guys are using to judge this?

OBP, OPS, Slug %, SB%, pretty simple ones can tell you they are both poor players

[kenny1234]

In ranking leadoff hitters, start with on-base percentage, and you don't need to look at much else.

[TheNamelessPoet]

To me... Posednick is just ryan church with speed. Pierre is better IMO as he is even in OBP with Scott but has a higher BA meaning he has more of a change to KNOCK in a run where Scott gets on the same amount of time but will not knock in as many.

His OPS is better to I think. he IS an upgrade but tahts like Oliver Perez over John Neese Both are decent... but its not like you are gong to set the world on fire

[yomamaimontv]

Yeah OPS is a pretty intersting stat I have started to use in BM to evaluate players. I know their SLG% is low but their leadoff hitters not power guys. Their OBP is not great but not terrible either. Pierre was .365 last year not bad...

[TheNamelessPoet]

my ideal team has a .370-.380+ OBP guy with Speed.
NOT either of those 2 leading off... Pierre I would take as my #8 hitter tho... walk him to get to the pitcher... and he steals 2nd base and if you pinch hit the pitcher... you have a speed guy on in front of him if he gets on... plus may knock in a few down in the lineup

[TheNamelessPoet]

In ranking leadoff hitters, start with on-base percentage, and you don't need to look at much else.

yes and no... you dont want Adam Dunn leading off

[yomamaimontv]

How are they defensively since fielding % is no longer considered a good way to evaluate defense?

[kenny1234]

yes and no... you dont want Adam Dunn leading off

I'd prefer Dunn to Pierre.

And Pierre had a good year last year, primarily because he got lucky when he did hit the ball - a BABIP 30 points higher than normal. I'd expect that he will drop back to .330-.340 OBP this year - which is OK for a very good defensive centerfielder, especially if he is hitting 7th or 8th in your lineup. Whether he is a very good centerfielder is another question - I would probably project him as above average.

[kenny1234]

How are they defensively since fielding % is no longer considered a good way to evaluate defense?

Pierre is the better fielder. He is above average in center, probably very good in left. Posednik is probably below average in center, and OK in left.

[FloydtheBarber]

Yeah OPS is a pretty intersting stat I have started to use in BM to evaluate players. I know their SLG% is low but their leadoff hitters not power guys. Their OBP is not great but not terrible either. Pierre was .365 last year not bad...

You have to consider that with players like Pierre, the OBP is inflated by batting average. He hits for hig averages. But if his average slips to say... .275-.280 (Not bad averages) His OBP will look like something around .310-.320. That is pretty bad for a player that relies on getting on base to make use of his greatest talent, speed. You must also realize Pierre and Podsednik get caught stealing a lot