Zomg!!! Halladay is gone and so is cliff lee

[200tang]

Soooo...this was weird news to wake up to. I was all bummed because Texas signed Harden and we didn't, but then JackZ POSSIBLY (not confirmed yet) pulls off a trade to get Cliff Lee for some interesting prospects but nothing I'll really miss. Of the guys being reported so far I'd probably miss Gillies most, but he's certainly not a deal breaker.

[Jeffy25]

Soooo...this was weird news to wake up to. I was all bummed because Texas signed Harden and we didn't, but then JackZ POSSIBLY (not confirmed yet) pulls off a trade to get Cliff Lee for some interesting prospects but nothing I'll really miss. Of the guys being reported so far I'd probably miss Gillies most, but he's certainly not a deal breaker.

you a happy man this morning??

[200tang]

you a happy man this morning??

If it happens I will be. Some more info from Jason Churchill's subscriber area.

Update: 12/14 2:11 PM
Churchill: Hearing that as part of the trade, Aumont will ultimately end up in Toronto with Phillies' OF Michael Taylor and at least two more players.

Not sure if those two players are Juan Ramirez and Tyson Gillies, or more from Philly.

Lee's agent has not been notified as of the 4 PM EST hour.

Update: 12/14 1:23 PM
Churchill: I have confirmed that RHP Juan Ramirez, CF Tyson Gillies and RHP Phillippe Aumont are headed to Philly for Cliff Lee. There may be prospects going to Toronto, too, to help Philly get Roy Halladay.

Update: 12/14 12:49 PM
Churchill: I have not confirmed this but there are some sources in the know that are saying Michael Saunders, Brandon Morrow and Phillippe Aumont could all be included in this deal if it goes through. I could have something confirmed in the next hour or so, if not before. Churchill:12:55 PM Hearing that Saunders nor Morrow is involved unless they are both landing in Toronto.

[gosensgo101]

you a happy man this morning??

Its 3 o'clock in the afternoon on the west coast...

[Jeffy25]

Its 3 o'clock in the afternoon on the west coast...

morning to some, is afternoon to other's

I kid

[actionjackson]

My prediction:

Philadelphia gets: SP Roy Halladay, RP Jeremy Accardo, OF Tyson Gillies, cash
Philadelphia gives: SP Cliff Lee, OF Michael Taylor, C Lou Marson

Seattle gets: SP Cliff Lee
Seattle gives: RHP Phillipe Aumont, OF Michael Saunders, OF Tyson Gillies, RHP Juan Ramirez

Toronto gets: RHP Phillippe Aumont, OF Michael Saunders, OF Michael Taylor, C Lou Marson, RHP Juan Ramirez
Toronto gives: SP Roy Halladay, RP Jeremy Accardo, RHP Juan Ramirez, cash

Perhaps a bit much given up by Philly, but I couldn't see Toronto getting any less. Perhaps Carlos Triunfel goes to the Jays and one of the others to the Phillies.

Unless the Cleveland Indians get involved and turn this into a four team mega deal, Marson ain't going anywhere as he's been an Indian since July 29th. See Cliff Lee/Ben Francisco for 4 prospects including Marson deal on July 29, 2009.

Otherwise, quite realistic although I don't see why Accardo and Ramirez would be included. Save Jeremy for another deal. This is a fun offseason, possibly. We'll see in the long run if it eclipses McGriff/Fernandez for Alomar/Carter, but if it happens it is huge and the 1st genuine attempt at re-building since 1994 is well underway.

This would also mark the beginning of Phase II of the re-build. Phase I: sign up cheap flotsam to non-bank breaking deals to fill out MLB roster. Flotsam plays until prospects push their way onto the roster...wait, what prospects? Ah, that's Phase II, begin trading away players that other teams value (ahem not Vernon Wells unfortunately) for valuable prospects/young major league players hopefully with high upside that you can control at low cost for some years, while Vernon's contract ticks down to zero...it'll get there eventually right? Right?

At the very least this shows we have our first GM with the ability to think outside the box since, dare I say it, Pat Gillick. Word up! Go AA

[gosensgo101]

Unless the Cleveland Indians get involved and turn this into a four team mega deal, Marson ain't going anywhere as he's been an Indian since July 29th. See Cliff Lee/Ben Francisco for 4 prospects including Marson deal on July 29, 2009. Otherwise, quite realistic although I don't see why Accardo and Ramirez would be included. Save Jeremy for another deal. This is a fun offseason, possibly. We'll see in the long run if it eclipses McGriff/Fernandez for Alomar/Carter, but if it happens it is huge and the 1st genuine attempt at re-building since 1994 is well underway. This would also mark the beginning of Phase II of the re-build. Phase I: sign up cheap flotsam to non-bank breaking deals. Flotsam plays until prospects push their way onto the roster...wait, what prospects? Ah, that's Phase II, begin trading away players that other teams value (ahem not Vernon Wells unfortunately) for valuable prospects/young major league players hopefully with high upside that you can control at low cost for some years, while Vernon's contract ticks down to zero...it'll get there eventually right? Right? At the very least this shows we have our first GM with the ability to think outside the box since, dare I say it, Pat Gillick. Word up! Go AA

Ooops, I was just looking at a pre-season prospects list. It looks like I am right about a catching spect head our way though:

5:00pm: ESPN's Jayson Stark heard this deal is close but not done. He says Halladay's extension would be just three years and $60MM (starting in 2011), with possible vesting options for another year or two. Aside from Aumont, Stark says the Jays would get Phils catching prospect Travis D'Arnaud. The Blue Jays have been asking for Phils outfield prospect Domonic Brown but have been offered Taylor. The Mariners would also give an additional prospect.

Agreed with your view though, if AA could deal Wells he would be my hero.

[Jeffy25]

on the ootp forum there is a guy saying that Lee is a better pitcher than Halladay and that he hates this deal. He is basing this on this past year's playoff appearance

facepalm!

[200tang]

Saunders seems like a good fit for Toronto. The Mariners probably don't have much use for him with the logjam so it's a win-win. Gillies also gives them a possible future CF with 80 raw speed and an awesome back story. This year will probably make or break him since AA is the first real test, but I have faith in him. Seems like Toronto got 2 guys who will be undervalued in the market but will still be above average players.

[Jeffy25]

Look at what the Phillies gave up for Lee, and then look at what they gave up for Halladay now, and then let's evaluate how Amaro did.

[actionjackson]

Agreed with your view though, if AA could deal Wells he would be my hero.

Not...gonna...happen.

[yanks27]

Well since LAckey is now a Red sock, it is like Halladay out of the division, Lackey in.

[bucher34]

Most recent update....if an update at all

ESPN.com's Jayson Stark has heard from sources that catching prospect Travis D'Arnaud is also headed to Toronto in Monday's three-team blockbuster.
Here's what we've learned so far: The Phillies will get Roy Halladay from the Blue Jays and will hand him a three-year, $60 million contract extension; The Blue Jays, in turn, will get D'Arnaud and outfielder Michael Taylor from the Phillies, and pitching prospect Phillippe Aumont from the Mariners; Seattle will get Cliff Lee from the Phils. This thing might not get sorted out until Tuesday or Wednesday, but we'll be sure to keep up with the details as they stream in. Stay tuned. Dec. 14 - 6:14 pm et

[gosensgo101]

on the ootp forum there is a guy saying that Lee is a better pitcher than Halladay and that he hates this deal. He is basing this on this past year's playoff appearance

facepalm!

On that note, so is Chad Gaudin, seeing as he threw 1 scoreless inning in the playoffs compared to Roy's 0. I think we might as well deal him straight up to the Yankees.

Saunders seems like a good fit for Toronto. The Mariners probably don't have much use for him with the logjam so it's a win-win. Gillies also gives them a possible future CF with 80 raw speed and an awesome back story. This year will probably make or break him since AA is the first real test, but I have faith in him. Seems like Toronto got 2 guys who will be undervalued in the market but will still be above average players.

I just realized that Gillies is also Canadian. I knew about Saunders and Aumond, but had no idea about Gillies. Seattle sure does scout Canada (I guess being in Washington helps get the BC guys).

Saunders could be the leadoff guy we need this year, Gillies could turn into that. Of course, we do have a bit of a logjam in center field, hopefully Cito (and his successor(s)) don't hesitate to sit Wells on the bench if there are better options.

Look at what the Phillies gave up for Lee, and then look at what they gave up for Halladay now, and then let's evaluate how Amaro did.

It looks like he'll keep his Drabek and Happ though, so it may be better than if he just pulled off the deal in July.

Not...gonna...happen.

One can dream, however farfetched that dream may be.

[BTerran]

I'm a Jays fan and I have pretty mixed feelings about this trade, without even knowing for sure what Toronto is getting back. I knew it was coming, but now that it has and Halladay's gone...I just feel like the Jays are in for a long rebuilding season.

Only problem is, I can't remember the last time a Jays season wasn't long. They haven't made the playoffs since 1993. Although they've had winning seasons since then, they've never really come close to the postseason. Yah, there's been times when the Jays have made a push for it, but they've always fallen well short of the division and the wild card. They've always ended up saying: We got a five year plan and then we'll be competitive, which has never turned out to be the case. I'm 24, I was about 7 and 8 when the Jays were winning World Series. I have trouble remembering a time when Toronto's meaningful contribution to baseball wasn't dealing star players to other teams or letting them slip into the FA market so that they can get a real shot at a ring with another team.

I don't want another five year plan. I know that's all that's being offered to me, but I'm not sure I really want an MLB team under those conditions. If it was the first or second five-year plan than sure, but the fourth or fifth? Yes, it's possible to win on a budget, but it's rare and even when it's achieved, the team you build doesn't last long. The Yankees don't win the World Series every season, but they're competitive every season.

Admittably, budget isn't the whole problem with the Jays. Under JP they had money but they ultimately made bad signings. Wells and Rios being examples of that. So this hasn't just be a money thing, it's also been a management thing.

At the end of the day though, Halladay left because he didn't think the Jays would win a World Series before he retires and the Jays traded him because they could offer him no evidence to the contrary. That's kind of depressing.