Lowell to Rangers Finalized

[DarthJaker]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/1...well-deal.html

[Alloutwar]

vetoed

[FloydtheBarber]

vetoed

This :/

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

Supposedly it's a pre-cursor to an Adrian Beltre signing. I also wonder if Ramirez will be kept as an heir to Varitek/Martinez, or if they plan on using Ramirez as a trade chip for Halladay or in another trade.

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

vetoed

This :/

I disagree. Sure, he put up an .800 OPS last year, but it's pretty clear to me he's been physically declining for a few years. He dropped from almost an .880 OPS in 2007 to just under .800 in 2008, and hit at basically the same level this year. I think his performance and the fact that he's been a major injury concern for the past 2-2 1/2 seasons is a clear indicator that he is in the twilight of his career. Plus from what I remember reading about this Ramirez kid he's a really solid prospect.

[200tang]

Beltre > Lowell.

[ewing6]

Beltre > Lowell.

beltre and max ramerez> lowell and 9 mil in cash

:P

[filihok]

Why vetoed?

Seems like a no-brainer for the Sawks to me.

I think Max can hit, I don't know if he can catch, but he can hit.
No Manny, Medium Papi, LF ?
Boston can use the bat going forward

[Alloutwar]

Okay, here's my issue.

Lowell was owed $12 mil. Lowell had a bad year, movement wise - he can't run well, he can't field well, due to the surgery.

In 2010, doctors say his mobility and range will return. He's 35, will be 36 at the start of opening day. If we want to keep his decently hot bat in the lineup, which we should, he can play a decent 3B, or move to first, or even DH - if you recall, our DH wasn't great last year, and Lowell would improve that.

Instead, we trade him. Not only trade him, but pay $9mil to not have his bat. So if Ortiz is really floundering, or there is an injury, that's one less good backup DH/1B/3B. That we paid $9mil to be rid of.

We may get an expensive FA like Beltre, fine. So what do we sign him at, $10 or $12mil/year? So a combined $19-$21mil in 2010 for Adrian Beltre (or DeRosa, or any other FA) and Max Ramirez.

I think Ramirez is good, a decent prospect. But Texas has Salty and Teagarden, so losing him isn't a huge deal - just a chip. I don't believe a FA 3B, and Ramirez, is worth $21mil AND losing Lowell's bat.

Maybe I'm loyal to him, maybe I like him (my gf certainly does, thinks he's the hispanic George Clooney fer chrissake), but we just dumped this guy like he was Milton Bradley or something. If I were in charge, I would've taken our lumps for the contract we signed and played him in 2010.

But, I'm not a GM. Yet.

[filihok]

Spread the 9 million over the next 6 seasons of Ramirez instead of applying it to Beltre if that makes you feel better.

Plus, fans of the Red Sox and Yankees might as well not consider the money. The money is there for the players that they want.

[Alloutwar]

Fair enough.

On the money thing - you can't start taking the money for granted. I realize that we're very lucky to have a big market team, but that doesn't mean I want us to plop down $20mil on Holliday or Lackey or every other guy out there. Money, PLUS spending wisely = championship. See Sox in 04, 07, and the Yanks last year.

Money + spending unwisely on a few bad moves = Yankees from 2001-2008.

[kenny1234]

Fair enough.

On the money thing - you can't start taking the money for granted. I realize that we're very luck to have a big market team, but that doesn't mean I want us to plop down $20mil on Holliday or Lackey or every other guy out there. Money, PLUS spending wisely = championship. See Sox in 04, 07, and the Yanks last year.

Money + spending unwisely on a few bad moves = Yankees from 2001-2008.

Money and luck - Red Sox 2004, 2007, Yankees 2009. Money and no luck - Yankees 2001-2008.

I like how Red Sox fans act like their team somehow did everything better than the Yankees in terms of player acquisition. Combining the 2 Red Sox years, the Yankees were 1 game better in the regular season. Over the decade, the Yankees won an extra 47 games. The Yankees were at least as good as the Red Sox over the decade, and until this year just happened to be unlucky at playoff time. Either that, or you choose to believe in the power of clutch hitting and clutch pitching.

[200tang]

You forgot clutch defensing and clutch base running.

[Alloutwar]

I'm not a clutch guy myself, no. In Theo I trust.

I think that most of the moves we've made have turned out good, from bringing on Ortiz, to the draft picks like Pedroia/Papelbon/Lester/Ellsbury, trades, etc.

When you compare that to the Yanks signings and moves, ones that stand out like Igawa, Kevin Brown, Carl Pavano, etc - then I tend to think we've made some better acquisitions, given our lower payroll. If the Yankees spend $200 mil/season, and we spend $137 mil/season, and yet there's only one win difference...

Well, maybe you're one of those that believes in straight luck as the only factor. to each their own.

[kenny1234]

I'll agree that the Red Sox front office has made up for the payroll difference by spending their money a little better.

But there was no significant difference between the Red Sox and Yankees in either 2004 or 2007 - the regular season records demonstrate that. So either you believe that the playoff outcomes are about clutchiness, or you believe that they are about luck.

To put your earlier point differently - Money and spending wisely = good team. Lots of money, some spent well, some spent poorly = good team. Good team + luck = championship.