How Does One Define The Greatest Hitter Of All-Time?

[Jeffy25]

Yeah, but this goes for umpteen guys if you stretch it out. It's just....not even worth mentioning.


Well yeah.

Well that is why i was sharing

[gRYFYN1]

wow .. it amazing that he only mentions Ruth once in an article about the best hitter of all time .... how is the article simply not . "Prove that Ruth isn't the best hitter of all time"

His choice of Musial is.. odd .. or at the very least a homer pick ... Musial was an an amazing hitter and generally forgotten, but really, he not in the disussion for "best hitter of all time"

But really by what metric is Ruth not the best hitter of all time?

[Jeffy25]

it's a bleacher report article. Not a credible writer. He explains in the comments why he left Ruth off. and yes, Musial is a very homer pick by the guy.

I want to see someone argue that Ruth isn't the greatest hitter of all time. Because I really don't think you can. And only Williams can be said in the same sentence as Ruth. Maybe Bonds during his peak years.

[dps]

it's a bleacher report article. Not a credible writer. He explains in the comments why he left Ruth off. and yes, Musial is a very homer pick by the guy.

I want to see someone argue that Ruth isn't the greatest hitter of all time. Because I really don't think you can. And only Williams can be said in the same sentence as Ruth. Maybe Bonds during his peak years.

Yeah, you might be able to reasonably argue that Mays or Wagner or Aaron and maybe one or two other guys were better all-around players than Ruth, but as hitters, no.

[free2131]

Yeah, you might be able to reasonably argue that Mays or Wagner or Aaron and maybe one or two other guys were better all-around players than Ruth, but as hitters, no.

Oh, so they were good pitchers as well?

[Jeffy25]

in my conversation with the author

Jeffrey Lage 192879 N500590040_7105_comment posted about 6 hours ago 1259801506 1636260 Jeffrey

The problems I have with this article

1. You give too much weight and credibility to career hits and batting averages
2. You omitted Babe Ruth, who is mathematically, easily the greatest hitter ever, and your reasoning is that the game has been integrated, yet you have Ty Cobb on there
3. Poor grammar spots
4. You put so much weight on career numbers and rankings, that you are ignoring basic rate stats that simply answer the question
5. Why does a guy have to have 3000 hits, or a 200 hit season to be the best hitter? You said earlier that walks are an integral part to be an offensive force. Well no one walked more than Bonds!
6. Your logic is just terrible.

The only argument I can see is the evolution of the game when discounting someone like Ruth. And if you do that, than the might honor maybe goes to Williams or Bonds. Being the greatest offensive force ever carries many requirements, and you failed to hit any of the actual logical reasons.
The problems I have with this article 1. You give too much weight and credibility to career hits and batting averages 2. You omitted Babe Ruth, who is mathematically, easily the greatest hitter ever, and your reasoning is that the game has been integrated, yet you have Ty Cobb on there 3. Poor grammar spots 4. You put so much weight on career numbers and rankings, that you are ignoring basic rate stats that simply answer the question 5. Why does a guy have to have 3000 hits, or a 200 hit season to be the best hitter? You said earlier that walks are an integral part to be an offensive force. Well no one walked more than Bonds! 6. Your logic is just terrible. The only argument I can see is the evolution of the game when discounting someone like Ruth. And if you do that, than the might honor maybe goes to Williams or Bonds. Being the greatest offensive force ever carries many requirements, and you failed to hit any of the actual logical reasons.

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Steven Resnick 37211 N214900245_6048_comment posted about 4 hours ago 1259808019 1636583 1636260 Steven

A. Too much weight and credibility to career hits and averages. The job of a batter is to get a hit. So, if you put someone who has 2600 hits and someone with 3300 hits there's a huge difference.

A .340 hitter beats out a batter who hits .250.

2. I've never considered Ruth as the greatest hitter in baseball history because he has been dethroned. You're putting words in my mouth I agreed with Andrew with respects to how the game has changed on why one may not consider Ruth the greatest hitter ever.

I included Cobb because he had over 4100 hits and his batting average is the highest in baseball history.

3. Oh well there's some grammar issues. It's not as bad as your hypothetical hitter.

4. I'll take the numbers that were actually produced over a modern stat. It's almost like basing a player on a quarterback rating. It's pretty much a meaningless stat.

5. It's easy to see why a player who has over 3,000 hits for their careers or 200 hits in a season is more valuable than a player that walks a bunch of times because of the fact that player will not have the opportunity to get to hit in certain situations or even with the bases empty.

Yes, Bonds walked the most! Number two in walks is Rickey Henderson, but as I mentioned before Henderson was the greatest leadoff hitter that the game has ever seen, but he would never be considered the greatest hitter of all-time.

6. Obviously it wasn't terrible because you've gotten yourself riled up over it.

By the way there are plenty of other names that I omitted that baseball fans would probably want to see on the list as well.

[Jeffy25]

Continued....

Jeffrey Lage 192879 N500590040_7105_comment posted 3 minutes ago 1259823258 1637128 1636583 Jeffrey

1A. Obviously, I never said that it wouldn't matter. But career number of hits points to longevity, if a career .250 hitter plays long enough, he will get 5000 hits.

1B. Obviously as well, but batting average is a pretty meaningless stat in comparison to several other stats that show true value. Being a .300 hitter really doesn't necessarily mean a great hitter anymore, we have come to the point that we understand value better now. Just because Schumaker bats .300 doesn't mean he is as valuable as Bonds, an almost career .300 hitter.

2. Then you are ignoring a plethora of facts.

2A. But if Ruth has been dethroned because of the era that he played, and yet is second all time in homers, first in slugging, etc, and has a career .342 average, how are his numbers ignored because the game has evolved since he played, when Cobb played before him? You do realize the gigantic error in your logic right? You can't put one up without the other, it makes literally no sense that Ruth was omitted from this article because the game has evolved when a lesser hitter in Cobb, who played before him is on here. Cobb has the career average, and the career hits, Ruth has the career.....well everything, every single rate stat that we use to measure offensive value, over Cobb except for batting average, which again, you are giving way to much credit to. Not only did Ruth get on more, he slugged better, hit for more power, and created more runs. Cobb was an incredible player, but he wasn't Babe Ruth, and it isn't even close. Having a high batting average is like being the smartest kid with down syndrome, it doesn't really matter.

3. Bad grammar is not only annoying for a reader, but is a sign that you do not care about what you are writing, or you don't have the intelligence to understand how to write, please take the time to not only spell check, but proofread. Passing basic 8th grade grammar studies is essential to being a talented writer, no matter what the issue. My hypothetical hitter has no bearing in the annoyance of poor grammar skills.

4. Than you are putting too much weight on the wrong stats and not fully understanding which numbers mean more. Having a high batting average doesn't mean you are a great hitter.
If you can acknowledge that there are meaningless stats in football, than surely you can understand that there are meaningless stats in baseball. Batting average, wins by a starting pitcher etc.

5. What does it matter if a guy gets a hit and raises his batting average or draws a walk and his average stays the same? They helped the team win in the exact same manner. This is why we do not care about batting averages (or shouldn't) because drawing a walk, reaching on an error etc, has the exact same value as getting a single. If nothing else, having a high batting average can be misleading. Having a high on base percentage is incredibly valuable to any team. It isn't about getting a hit, it's about not making an out. Any avid baseball scout, coach, or teacher will tell you that. Having discipline at the plate is incredibly valuable. From 01-04 Bonds had an incredibly high value because of the enormous amount of walks that he drew, coupled with his high number of home runs and extra base hits. Over half the time that he stepped to the plate, he got on. The rate stat in that simple factor tells you how incredibly valuable he was. He rarely made any outs! Ruth the same. And Henderson is second all time, look at how long he played! And he drawing a walk, or getting a leadoff single still ended in the same scenario...and he would not have all those stolen bases without all those walks. I don't think anyone will say he was the greatest hitter of all time, but he was the best at doing his job which was leading off the game by getting on base. Any avid baseball follower, or anyone who understands the game will tell you that having a high obp is significantly more valuable than having a high batting average. I will take the guy that bats .280 with a .370 obp over the guy that bats .300 with an obp of .350 any day. One is clearly, and obviously more valuable than the other. Denying it just means you completely ignore logic.

6. Yes, reading something that is supposed to be credible that has completely poor logic annoys me. Especially when it comes to baseball. It riles me up, because you have blatantly ignored facts in your argument. If it was accidental, than okay, do more research next time. If you actually fully believe what you have said above, than you either do not know enough about baseball, the topic that you are writing on, or you completely ignore facts. These aren't opinions, these are simply facts. Ruth put up ridiculous numbers throughout his career, and you ignored them with very poor logic, and have attacked anyone that disagrees with you.

Either learn more about the subject, or don't write on it anymore.

Too harsh?

[Rexington]

Not too harsh Jeffy. You make an intelligent point. Anybody who is willing to write an article on the internet for all to see is allowing others to have and post an opinion on what they wrote. When said person then counters a point made by somebody else with pure idiocy, well...

[Jeffy25]

I kind of feel like I was a bit of dick, writer's remorse I guess. But why on earth are you a "senior writer" on a bleacher report when you don't know what anyone that studies the game does? God I love this mogul forum, here we at least have a majority of intelligent posters. It's frustrating....it shouldn't be, but it is.

[free2131]

Try visiting the Braves MLB.com forums.

[200tang]

Try visiting the Braves MLB.com forums.

oh god..the worst fans ever..

[ragecage]

I dont think you were harsh either Jeffy. Its the truth, truth hurts sometimes.

[free2131]

Why the hell did I visit that site...

Unfortunately for you it'd take more than Sizemore to get Hanson in a trade, considerably more actually. Sizemore and LaPorta would like be a jump off point.

James Parr, Kelly Johnson and Jordan Schaffer for Grady. What do you think of that?

You know, there may not be a player in the entire league I would trade Tommy for. Maybe Pujols but I'd have to thing long and hard about it.

we dont need sizemore, jordan schafer is basically grady sizemore.

call up tampa bay, offer up medlen and schafer and plug carl crawford into our leadoff spot. call up washington and offer up a couple decent pitching prospects and plug Dunn into 1st base

[SirKodiak]

Q: How Does One Define The Greatest Hitter Of All-Time?
A: You Define What Makes A Hitter The Greatest Hitter Of All-Time

[OregonDuck1989]

Why the hell did I visit that site...

Why doesn't Atlanta's GM take these ideas and run with them????? I mean come on!!!!