Which team would you rather start a franchise with

[Jeffy25]

the 01 Mariners

or the

98 Yankees

[Jeffy25]

I voted Yankees mainly because of their youth.

And I like the depth of their rotation and pen over the Mariners.

although having a 27 year old Suzuki would be awesome!

Granted I should say imagine you do not know the future's of any of the players, just base it on the players you have and the numbers they put up.

[OregonDuck1989]

I voted the Yankees as well.

Because they have Derek Jeter.

In all seriousness, the team had more probability of repeating their performance.

[skudplayr]

Considering the Mariners sh*t the bed in the playoffs to a Yankees team with many of the same players, I'll go with New York.

[kellys11]

Has to be the Yankees, they proved to be better.

[Francoeurstein]

The Yankees had a good mix of old and young and showed that they could repeat every year. The Mariners had a lot of veterans who happened to string together great seasons all at once, and not much youth.

[President]

Just picked the Mariners because I hate the Yankees

[ragecage]

Not sure what this question means, like if I was playing OOTP or Mogul, if this is the case, I choose neither, I like the challenge in rebuilding a team and not starting off with a great roster.

[200tang]

Not sure what this question means, like if I was playing OOTP or Mogul, if this is the case, I choose neither, I like the challenge in rebuilding a team and not starting off with a great roster.

I think it means in real life (IRL!)

[ragecage]

I think it means in real life (IRL!)

Well then Seattle. To me this is a pick your poison cuz I dont care for either team much, but I loathe Seattle less.

[actionjackson]

I hate the Yankees, but I would still pick them. There are some very good core players between the ages of 24 and 29 at crucial positions that the Mariners can't come close to matching: Posada C, Knoblauch 2B, Jeter SS, Williams CF, Pettitte SP, Rivera RP, Mendoza RP. What do they say about championship teams and strength up the middle? Yeah, it's all there.

People forget how good Knoblauch was before he became Knoblock-head (one of the nastiest, cruelest back-page headlines ever) and it was this year that was the start of his demise as he went from being a spectacular defensive/offensive 2B to a slightly below average defender and an average hitter. He would have one more solid offensive season, during which his defense fell off the map and then his offense dropped off, he was moved to LF, off to KC and finally out of the league at age 33.

Shane Spencer and Homer Bush had unbelievable offensive output in extremely limited sample sizes and heck even Hideki "The Fat Pussy (as in full of pus, not what you were thinking) Toad" Irabu had a very good year. The master of the hidden ball trick Mike Lowell would emerge as the best of the young guys that didn't play much.

Carlos Guillen SS, David Bell 3B, Mike Cameron CF, Ichiro Suzuki RF, Freddy Garcia SP, Joel Pineiro SP (yes he was very good at a very young age and then blah!), Ryan Franklin RP, and Brian Fuentes RP are nice but not in the same class as the Yankees core. That this team was living in the shadows of Randy Johnson, Ken Griffey Jr. and Alex Rodriguez and still won 116 says a lot about how good they were. Also hanging around but not getting into many games was 2005 White Sox playoff hero Scott Podsednik. The Mariners probably have the edge in quantity, but definitely not in quality of young and in their prime players.

As much as it pains me to do it, I'll paraphrase John Sterling: "Comparison over! Yankees win! Theeeeeee Yankees win!"

[Jeffy25]

don't forget about Chuck's two infamous post season plays

1. the lonnie smith fake out
2. the arguing the call at first while a guy scored.

[actionjackson]

@skudplyr: re: Utley: Greatest 2B of all-time?

Whoa there! Hold your horses! Cool your jets! Greatest 2B in the game today? Absolutely, but not all-time. Come back in about 10-15 years and we'll see.

You see, when you look at offense plus defense at 2B, you've got people like Rogers Hornsby, Eddie Collins, Nap Lajoie, Joe Morgan, Charlie Gehringer, Frankie Frisch, Lou Whitaker, Bobby Grich, Craig Biggio, and Robbie Alomar.

I think Utley will blow past positions 6 through 10. It's just a matter of getting playing time. Gehringer will be tough, but I think he can get by him too. I'll be surprised if he does more than break into the top 5, but that is some very select company to be in. I love his swing, his defense, in fact there's nothing not to love about Chase Utley, but let's let him play the games OK?

[Jeffy25]

@skudplyr: re: Utley: Greatest 2B of all-time?

Whoa there! Hold your horses! Cool your jets! Greatest 2B in the game today? Absolutely, but not all-time. Come back in about 10-15 years and we'll see.

You see, when you look at offense plus defense at 2B, you've got people like Rogers Hornsby, Eddie Collins, Nap Lajoie, Joe Morgan, Charlie Gehringer, Frankie Frisch, Lou Whitaker, Bobby Grich, Craig Biggio, and Robbie Alomar.

I think Utley will blow past positions 6 through 10. It's just a matter of getting playing time. Gehringer will be tough, but I think he can get by him too. I'll be surprised if he does more than break into the top 5, but that is some very select company to be in. I love his swing, his defense, in fact there's nothing not to love about Chase Utley, but let's let him play the games OK?

and seeing how Utley is already 30. Gehringer got really good from the ages of 28-37....something that probably will not happen to Utley. He would have to defy the chances of slowing down to finish ahead of Gehringer. Chances are, he is at his peak, the question, is how long will he sustain this peak? If he plays like this until he is 37, sure, he passes Gehringer pretty easily. If he plays like this another two or three years, and then has a normal decline comparable to other historic second basemen, he would likely fall somewhere behind Girch and around Alomar and Biggio.

No way he is catching Hornsby, Collins or Lajoe.

and there are still players like Jeff Kent and Ryne Sandberg that i think he compares more to.

[Jeffy25]

in fact, after further review, i think i am going to say that Utley's career will rival Sandberg's when it's all said and done statistically both offensively and defensively.


best of all time? not a chance.

best of all time in a phillies fans eyes? possibly

Top 20 of all time thus far? Very likey






but hey, the good news......at least i saved some money on my car insurance.