Charlie Hustle and Shoeless Joe

[Jeffy25]

Rose was at Cincy's game last night.

[RickD]

Yes for both!

[OregonDuck1989]

Pete Rose as a person? No, he's a prick.

Pete Rose as a player? Yes.

[wahoosamC]

Yes for jackson, no for Rose.

[Jeffy25]

if anyone is watching the yankee rays game, they are talking about Charlie getting into the hall of fame.

Costas says he wouldn't vote for him in the first year of eligibility but he would the second? just to show disaproval? then what the hell is the point?!

Costas thinks Rose should just be put on the ballot and see if they vote him in or not.

just his argument is pretty silly, not his opinion, but his argument is.

jim Kaat replied well though.....i respect Jim Kaat,

[Coach Owens]

Yes for both. Rose never tried to lose as a manager and he never bet against his team. Jackson was the only White Sox to actually hit well in the WS. Lift the ban.

[gosensgo101]

The writers should be allowed to choose whether to vote for them or not, based on stats, character, etc., just like the steroid users.

[HoustonGM]

Yes for both. Rose never tried to lose as a manager and he never bet against his team.

We know this?

Jackson was the only White Sox to actually hit well in the WS. Lift the ban.

So? That doesn't mean much.

[Coach Owens]

We know this?


So? That doesn't mean much.

All I'm saying is that since it didn't affect how they played or managed, they shouldn't be banned.

[rockiesfan4ever]

So? That doesn't mean much.

What that means is that we can assume that he didn't try to throw the game since he still hit .350+

[HoustonGM]

All I'm saying is that since it didn't affect how they played or managed, they shouldn't be banned.

For Pete Rose, we absolutely do not know that it didn't affect how he played or managed. Also, even if it didn't, that's irrelevant. The rule is that if you are caught gambling on a baseball game, you're banned for life. Rose knew this. He did it anyway. I don't feel sorry for him and he shouldn't have his ban lifted.

What that means is that we can assume that he didn't try to throw the game since he still hit .350+

In testimony before the grand jury on September 28, 1920, Jackson admitted under oath that he agreed to participate in the fix. Contemporary news accounts contend that Jackson told the grand jury:

"When a Cincinnati player would bat a ball out in my territory I'd muff it if I could — that is, fail to catch it. But if it would look too much like crooked work to do that I'd be slow and make a throw to the infield that would be short. My work netted the Cincinnati team several runs that they never would have had if we had been been playing on the square."[13]

No such direct quote or testimony to this effect appears in the actual stenographic record of Jackson's grand jury appearance.[14]

So, we don't know if that statement is true or not, but that's an example of how you can try to throw games while still hitting well.

I don't know if Jackson participated in the fix or not. None of us do. There's evidence both ways. I think I said this earlier though I'm not sure, but I wouldn't really care if Jackson's ban was lifted or not. Rose, though, I'm absolutely against.

[dps]

The writers should be allowed to choose whether to vote for them or not, based on stats, character, etc., just like the steroid users.

No one who is permanently banned from the game is eligible, which is entirely appropriate. If any of the steroid users get permanently banned, they won't be eligible, either.

Both Rose and Jackson earned their bans, and I'm fine with that.

[Gocardinals]

I read a book about "Shoeless" Joe Jackson. It said he was illiterate, and he didn't know what he was doing when he accepted money from the gamblers, if he even did. He DID NOT, contrary to popular belief, purposely throw the 1919 WS. He was probably playing harder than anybody on either team. He deserves to go in the Hall of Fame. I think they are handling this very incorrectly. Jackson did not purposely throw the World Series. He does not deserve to be banned from baseball for life. And Pete Rose:
The rule says he is banned from Major League Baseball for life, not for eternity. He can be put on the Hall of Fame ballot, when he dies.

[dps]

So much disinformation.

I read a book about "Shoeless" Joe Jackson.

You might want to try reading more than just one source on the topic.

t said he was illiterate,

which he was

and he didn't know what he was doing when he accepted money from the gamblers, if he even did.

He was illiterate because, like many people at the time, he was uneducated. To not know what he was doing, he would have had to be badly retarded, not just uneducated--and I've never seen anything which would indicate that he was retarded (though I can't say definatively that he wasn't).

He DID NOT, contrary to popular belief, purposely throw the 1919 WS. He was probably playing harder than anybody on either team.

The evidence says that he did.

<snip>

And Pete Rose:
The rule says he is banned from Major League Baseball for life, not for eternity. He can be put on the Hall of Fame ballot, when he dies.

Uhm, no. Rose (and others who are banned) are on what is called the permanently ineligible list. The bans don't expire with their deaths.

[wahoosamC]

I read a book about "Shoeless" Joe Jackson. It said he was illiterate, and he didn't know what he was doing when he accepted money from the gamblers, if he even did. He DID NOT, contrary to popular belief, purposely throw the 1919 WS. He was probably playing harder than anybody on either team. He deserves to go in the Hall of Fame. I think they are handling this very incorrectly. Jackson did not purposely throw the World Series. He does not deserve to be banned from baseball for life. And Pete Rose:
The rule says he is banned from Major League Baseball for life, not for eternity. He can be put on the Hall of Fame ballot, when he dies.

look, I think Joe should be cleared, but come on.

The guy knew exactly what was going on, fixing games was nothing knew to players from his time period, it was common practice.

Also, his ban is not supposed to be lifted when he dies. I still don't understand why everybody keeps saying this, he was placed on the permanently ineligible list.