Charlie Hustle and Shoeless Joe

[ragecage]

I agree AJ, theres so much more to the Black Sox than Rose, its fairly cut and dry with him. I dont think it necessarily has to be all or nothing with anyone, just educate the doubters as to why the decision was made with players like Joe and not with Rose.

[ragecage]

What kind of upsets me too is how Rose garners all the attention but with the Black Sox it is seldom talked about.

[actionjackson]

I agree AJ, theres so much more to the Black Sox than Rose, its fairly cut and dry with him. I dont think it necessarily has to be all or nothing with anyone, just educate the doubters as to why the decision was made with players like Joe and not with Rose.

Just for clarification, by all or nothing, I meant that either Jackson, McMullin, and Weaver should be reinstated or none of them should be. There can be no middle ground on that, otherwise you're giving special treatment at the expense of the other(s) who basically committed the same offense.

On a personal note: This is post #1,000 for me. Yay me. Ok, back to Charlie Hustle and Shoeless Joe.

[ragecage]

Just for clarification, by all or nothing, I meant that either Jackson, McMullin, and Weaver should be reinstated or none of them should be. There can be no middle ground on that, otherwise you're giving special treatment at the expense of the other(s) who basically committed the same offense.

On a personal note: This is post #1,000 for me. Yay me. Ok, back to Charlie Hustle and Shoeless Joe.

Congrats, I cant believe im over 7,000. I bet half of them were just in AGML2 itself...ah the good ol days of BMO.

Back on topic, Oh for sure. I understand you completely in that regard, those 3 should deserve reinstatement. Its unfortunate that they are long gone to see anything done about it. It really looks as though they wont ever be reinstated. I will say this though, if Pete gets reinstated before those gentleman, word would not describe how upset I would be.

[200tang]

On a personal note: This is post #1,000 for me. Yay me. Ok, back to Charlie Hustle and Shoeless Joe.

Grats man.

[actionjackson]

What kind of upsets me too is how Rose garners all the attention but with the Black Sox it is seldom talked about.

Well yes, being a media slut in the age of instantaneous information can sometimes aid your case. Kind of upsets you? C'mon say it out loud and proud: It's disgusting watching him pathetically show up at Cooperstown and sell books, autograph memorabilia for a fee etc. It's grandstanding at its worst. He just doesn't seem to understand why what he did was so effin wrong. He comes off as a first class grade A d!ck, unless of course you're gullible and easily sucked in by his shenanigans. It's all me, me, me...f**k off already. You had your chance and you blew it. You knew that what you were doing was quite possibly worse than the Black Sox, because you were the freakin' manager, and yet you went ahead and did it anyway. You made your bed, now lie in it.

The Black Sox thing unfortunately is but a faded memory that seemed to gain some traction when movies like: "Eight Men Out" and "Field of Dreams" came out, but can't sustain that momentum. Those guys all paid a massive price...some deservedly (particularly the ringleader Chick Gandil), others not so much, yet they're all seen as equally guilty. I would reinstate all eight, well maybe not Gandil, before I'd put Rose back in.

[ragecage]

Yep AJ, it is quite disgusting how hes doing it. As a society we are willing to forgive people when they come out and admit they are wrong, and Rose did that, but I dont think for one second he did it for the right reasons, he didnt apologize because he was wrong for doing it, he just wanted to garner sympathy from the public to use that to his advantage to make Selig budge on the issue.

[CCamels73]

Yes to both. Recognize Pete Rose's accomplishments as Hall worthy, but continue to keep him banned from baseball for life (no managing, coaching, working in any front office, etc.).

I agree, yes to both. The rule that says if you are banned from baseball, then your banned from the HOF is outmoded.Rose' accomplishments are easily enough to warrant entry into the Hall! IMHO the gambling had absolutely nothing to do with his ability to excel on the field. Keep him banned from baseball, but his ability to play the game itself should be admired by fans new and old.
According to wikipedia...

Peter Edward "Pete" Rose, Sr. (born April 14, 1941 in Cincinnati, Ohio), nicknamed Charlie Hustle, is a former player and manager in Major League Baseball. Rose played from 1963 to 1986, best known for his many years with the Cincinnati Reds. Rose, a switch hitter, is the all-time Major League leader in hits (4,256), games played (3,562), at-bats (14,053)[1], and outs (10,328). He won three World Series rings, three batting titles, one Most Valuable Player Award, two Gold Gloves, the Rookie of the Year Award, and made 17 All-Star appearances at an unequaled five different positions (2B, LF, RF, 3B, and 1B).

[gRYFYN1]

I feel this is an odd question because Im not sure why being banned from baseball should keep someone out of the HoF. I realize that "those are the rules" but its not just a HoF its also a museum and history of baseball.

[actionjackson]

CCamels and gRYFYN1: Excellent point and one that I hadn't thought of before. Permaban plus entry into the HOF for both Jackson and Rose with something on the plaques about why they are banned and will continue to be banned from baseball might be fair. I'll keep mulling it over.

[dps]

I feel this is an odd question because Im not sure why being banned from baseball should keep someone out of the HoF. I realize that "those are the rules" but its not just a HoF its also a museum and history of baseball.

Being inducted into the Hall of Fame is the highest honor that baseball can bestow on someone. Does it make any sense to say that Pete Rose is not eligible be employed in any capacity by organized baseball, not as a player, a manager, a coach, or a washroom atttendent; yet he is eligible to receive baseball's highest honor? Not in my book. How on earth does it make any sense?

BTW, I stole this argument from Bill James' book about the Hall. I would have quoted it directly, but I don't have it handy.

[bucher34]

Didn't Rose's gambling come during his managerial years? Correct me if I'm wrong, but he should get in based on his playing performance.

[ragecage]

Hey bucher, luv ya man, but you gotta stop using. 2003 is a long time to be hooked on drugs.

[HoustonGM]

I feel this is an odd question because Im not sure why being banned from baseball should keep someone out of the HoF. I realize that "those are the rules" but its not just a HoF its also a museum and history of baseball.

Pete Rose and the Black Sox are both in the HoF museum. The museum and the inductees are separate.

[Rongar]

Anyone read this critique of the HOF?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/29/bo...html?th&emc=th