Atheists: Fully Human?

[Jeffy25]

What statement is that? "What is, is, because it is, and only because it is"? Googling that comes up with no Clinton quote...or anything else.

Personally, I think this is way more shocking, and dangerous.

that is a lil extreme yes, but we were founded as one nation under God. Do atheist stand against the pledge or allegiance now?

[dickay]

What statement is that? "What is, is, because it is, and only because it is"? Googling that comes up with no Clinton quote...or anything else.

Personally, I think this is way more shocking, and dangerous.

wow, you really are clueless on this issue eh? try this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4XT-l-_3y0

and your link doesn't seem to work.

[HoustonGM]

No, it was "it depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is." that Clinton said during his grand jury testimony on the Lewinsky affair.

Ah, okay.

that is a lil extreme yes, but we were founded as one nation under God. Do atheist stand against the pledge or allegiance now?

We were also founded as a nation in which religion and government were separate. And, yes, a lot of atheists do have a problem the the "under God" bit in the pledge, which, by the way, was ADDED to the pledge about 50 years after it was written.

[HoustonGM]

wow, you really are clueless on this issue eh? try this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4XT-l-_3y0

and your link doesn't seem to work.

No, I wasn't clueless on it. I've heard that/seen that before. I just didn't put two and two together when I was reading the thread.

And the link works fine for me. It's to a post earlier in the thread.

[dickay]

lmfao...while lookin up the famous, is/is quote.....i found this you tube clip of Clinton. I don't recall seeing htis in the past, awesome!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpEckWHSvXk&NR=1

imagine if this were bush or a republican sleeping????

[BINGLEBOP]

And here's the "is is" quote we just mentioned.

And the longer clip of it, although much worse quality.

[Joe12Pack]

that is a lil extreme yes, but we were founded as one nation under God. Do atheist stand against the pledge or allegiance now?

"...under God" was added to the Pledge after the fact. Try saying it without. You'll notice the cadence makes a lot more sense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance

[free2131]

that is a lil extreme yes, but we were founded as one nation under God.

I direct you to the quote in my signature from the Treaty of Tripoli.

Do atheist stand against the pledge or allegiance now?

My senior year in high school, my friend and I had our first class together, and every morning during the Pledge of Allegiance, we sat. After the first few times, our teacher asked up to stand. We told her no, that we had a constitutional right to sit. She sent us to the principle, who told us that failure to obey a teacher could get us suspended.

Luckily, we figured this might happen, so we handed him a copy of the Supreme Court case West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette.

The look on his face was priceless.

[filihok]

One concept I have read about this has to do with dimensions. Everything we physically interact with is three dimensional, but we live in four dimensional spacetime (three physical dimensions + time). A being that was actually four dimensional would not fall within the constraints imposed by being 3d in a 4d world, like having a beginning or ending as we understand it. I originally got interested in this type of thought after reading a book that explored physics of 2d world in a 3d spacetime.

A really good post that was overlooked.

Actually, time is more likely the 8th or 9th dimension with the 4th through 7th or 8th dimensions being spatial dimensions that are small and coiled inside the 3 dimensions that we are familiar with.

It is possible that our 'universe' came from another higher dimensional universe. Instead of 'a being that was actually four dimensional' not falling 'within the constraints' of our local set of physical laws it could be that time flows through our universe and doesn't begin (nor end?) with what we are physically able to observe

Recommended reading:
Stephen Hawing - The Universe in a Nutshell
Michael Talbot - The Holographic Universe

that is a lil extreme yes, but we were founded as one nation under God. Do atheist stand against the pledge or allegiance now?

Yes. As an atheist I stand (sometimes sit) against the pledge of allegiance. But not because I'm an atheist. If I just objected to the 'under gods' part I'd just leave that out.

[RedsoxRockies]

I don't stand for the Pledge because I have no reason to give allegiance to a country I completely disagree with. And the God part.

[BINGLEBOP]

I always stood for it, just because it's a word (and nothing more) to me. So for somebody like myself that doesn't believe in "God", saying his name shouldn't be like garlic to a vampire. But those are just my personal feelings on the matter. I had no need to stand out and "make a statement", which would likely make little difference anyway, aside from bringing unnecessary attention upon myself and my family.

I can play the "devil in disguise" very well, thank you.

[TheNamelessPoet]

I always stood for it, just because it's a word (and nothing more) to me. So for somebody like myself that doesn't believe in "God", saying his name shouldn't be like garlic to a vampire. But those are just my personal feelings on the matter. I had no need to stand out and "make a statement", which would likely make little difference anyway, aside from bringing unnecessary attention upon myself and my family.

I can play the "devil in disguise" very well, thank you.

and mine as well

[Alloutwar]

I omitted to UG part, once I got the courage. I was the only one doing it. But I still said the rest of the pledge...without really knowing why, but oh well.

We already had a whole (locked) discussion on the pledge already, found here: http://forum.sportsmogul.com/showthr...dge+allegiance

[Joe12Pack]

So for somebody like myself that doesn't believe in "God", saying his name shouldn't be like garlic to a vampire.

I totally agree. I'm completely agnostic, but I have never understood why people are so offended by God. And if anyone should be offended by God, it's me, having grown up in an ultra-ultra-ultra conservative and mega-triple-ultra religious town where my family was practically the only family that didn't kneel down to the local religion.

Even the idea of public prayer does not bug me, unless, of course, people are being forced to pray.

I'm of the opinion that it takes a weak will and an even weaker mind to be offended by something one doesn't believe in or agree with.

[BINGLEBOP]

I'm of the opinion that it takes a weak will and an even weaker mind to be offended by something one doesn't believe in or agree with.

Perfectly stated. It's just a word, and nothing more.