interesting what a few months in office does to you;

[Alloutwar]

Oh and Jeffy - your work #, name and email are pasted in above - might want to edit those out to avoid spam and what-not.

[OldFatGuy]

It seems that most people working in media would be liberal. College (liberal arts, English, literature, journalism, etc) + desire to uncover truths and stand up for the little guy...defend the rights and such. (the people in my English and Lit classes tended to be liberal-minded; conservatives were more readily found in business admin, math or sciences, or in the frathouses.) The only media majority that would probably lean conservative would be editorial writers or talking heads, or radio "personalities" - and of course owners, as OFG pointed out. Owners like Fox make their presence extremely visible in how far outside the norm they push their programming; but others are much less authoritarian.

Now, is that so evident in how the media is handled? I don't know - I've given up on TV news, because it's going for ratings, dollars, etc. I don't do newspapers. I do NPR, and NPR makes such a huge effort to be balanced on EVERY story, that it all but eliminates the idea of bias. The anchors and reporters might ask questions that paint them as liberal, which might bother some; but overall each story manages to represent both sides as fairly as possible. No one shouts over each other, or gets pissed and turns off a mic, or harshly interrogates an ideological enemy.

There are really only two possibilities:
1) Liberals don't see the media as 'liberal' because, like me, we assume the average american is pro-choice, pro-gay rights, pro-gun control, race, environmental issues, etc. We also assume the average american is not too well off, and is more concerned about food and bills than tax evasion and immigration. So 'liberal' labels, to us, should really mean 'normal'. But we react negatively because we don't even understand the accusations.
2) Conservatives see the normal outlook to be so far skewed from their point of view, that they have no choice but to label it all 'liberal'. t them, Fox News is still extreme, of course; but everything else seems so out of line with their personal way of thinking, that it truthfully does appear liberal, in relation to their mindset. It's like if there was one guy living in a shack in West Virginia for the last 50 years who was against interracial marraige, civil rights, and everything else fom the 1950s-60s suddenly came out and watched tv; he'd assume those news outlets were tremendously liberal and just wacky as heck, when in reality he's just in the 100th percentile of conservatism.

Maybe individual reporters having an internal morality skewed towards liberal ideals makes it appear as though the country leans in one direction 70 or 80%, when in reality its more like 50/50. Or, maybe conservatives demand equal representation and try to make it look like 50/50 by being louder and more extreme (Rush, Faux News, Coulture, O'Reilly, that nutjob Glen Beck) when it's really more like 70/30. That's what I tend to think.

It is best summed up by Stephen Colbert: "Reality has a well-known liberal bias."

If you want to avoid media bias, go with NPR or your own research and reading, or a balance of all sources like Jeffy.

Just so you know, the right does consider NPR to be the most liberal. No, I'm not making that up. They claim CNN is (Clinton's New's Network) liberal, when that is so laughable I could choke, but they really insist, at least the ones I've talked to here in the rural area of No. Va, that NPR is ultra liberal, further even than (gasp!) CNN.

And it's all a bunch of crap. A bunch of crap believed by a bunch of people. But a bunch of people also believe in "creationism" and "intelligent design" and in an invisible man in the sky too, so just because a bunch of people believe it doesn't make it so, even if it's a majority.

[Jeffy25]

Thank you AOW. and I think you hit the nail on the head really well. And no, NPR isn't slanted very liberally. when I worked in radio I learned that first hand...but i sort of have deviated and forgotten about it....you are right on. Thank you.

and by saying it isn't liberally slanted, is me saying I didn't view it as liberally slanted.

[Jeffy25]

Just so you know, the right does consider NPR to be the most liberal. No, I'm not making that up. They claim CNN is (Clinton's New's Network) liberal, when that is so laughable I could choke, but they really insist, at least the ones I've talked to here in the rural area of No. Va, that NPR is ultra liberal, further even than (gasp!) CNN.

And it's all a bunch of crap. A bunch of crap believed by a bunch of people. But a bunch of people also believe in "creationism" and "intelligent design" and in an invisible man in the sky too, so just because a bunch of people believe it doesn't make it so, even if it's a majority.

well on your last paragraph...those possiblities still exist so deeming anyone neive for believing in those thoughts then you are just instigating a fight with someone. I don't, but I respect those that do and do not deem them morons.

CNN is very liberal...and fox is very conservative...whether you agree or disagree they simply are...even liberals agree to both points....all i see is you simply not being one of them that sees it.

[ohms_law]

Sorry OFG, I think you're a bit off the mark on this one.
News organizations are run by their editorial staff a lot more then the ownership.

[dickay]

I know where you're trying to go AOW, but these comments are part of the issue that muddy's the water;

It seems that most people working in media would be liberal. College (liberal arts, English, literature, journalism, etc) + desire to uncover truths and stand up for the little guy...defend the rights and such.

1) Liberals don't see the media as 'liberal' because, like me, we assume the average american is pro-choice, pro-gay rights, pro-gun control, race, environmental issues, etc. We also assume the average american is not too well off, and is more concerned about food and bills than tax evasion and immigration. So 'liberal' labels, to us, should really mean 'normal'. But we react negatively because we don't even understand the accusations.

Must be because conservatives don't care about the little guy?

Must be because conservatives are all rich business owners. Why is it that conservatives are all clumped into the rich business owners and the vast majority of rural America is forgotten? Outside of the large cities, much of the country is red, and much of that country lives with poverty as well.

[Jeffy25]

I think AOW hit it really well on the head. He seems to understand both sides pretty well and why we both see the other as an idiot. I give win to AOW for being a good mediator in the middle.

[Jeffy25]

Must be because conservatives are all rich business owners. Why is it that conservatives are all clumped into the rich business owners and the vast majority of rural America is forgotten? Outside of the large cities, much of the country is red, and much of that country lives with poverty as well.

kind of funny, because when Alyssa asked me when we first met...she was like, why are you so conservative? you aren't rich.....

haha as though you have to be rich for conservatism to make sense to you.

[dickay]

kind of funny, because when Alyssa asked me when we first met...she was like, why are you so conservative? you aren't rich.....

haha as though you have to be rich for conservatism to make sense to you.

i really hate that. Democrats have put a staple on "the poor" as theirs, and label republicans as rich fat cats yet in the same breath call us dumb red necks and make light of the poor lifestyle we choose and our lack of education. Talk about having your cake and eating it too.

[Alloutwar]

Yah, same here - when I was growing up, everyone that I ever met that was a conservative was white, old, relatively rich (or business owner), religious background, AND no college education. When I was 23 I finally met a college graduate, my age, that swung far to the right. I was so shocked. "Didn't you go to college?" I asked, incredulous. Turns out she was raised overseas by her religious missionary parents. Her husband (also conservative) was a young mortgage business hotshot who tried to screw me on a bad deal that would have gotten him a nice cut. So now I had to add in, 'raised religious and/or want to screw you over to profit themselves'. j/k

Anyway - my preconceptions seem silly now - people can be conservative based on their upbringing, or any other element of their background, outside of race or economic status. Upbringing can be the thing that sways kids growing up, like parent's outlook, religious status, or even the area and customs of where they grow up. Or the kid can sort of remain neutral and figure things out for themselves later, in college or when they decide to become politically active. Anything can happen.

I know a guy from Louisiana - solid dude, reliable and friendly and just about a good a guy as you can imagine - who has been and always will be staunch conservative. He was just raised in Louisiana; that's how things are there. I was 90% likely to come out of Massachusetts liberal, and he was 90% likely to come out of Louisiana conservative. Not everyone in Louisiana is raised religious, or rich business owners, or high-school-or-less education. And there are plenty of dumb jerk schmucks in Mass that lean liberal. Neither side has a monopoly on intellect, or wealth really (as shown by the rich Dems that run for office or give monetary support).

I realize now that that's the same stereotype that exists on the other side - "A Conservative is a Liberal that has been mugged," my father used to say. It always seemed like a stupid statement - something bad happens to you, and you lose your idealism about life/society and become conservative? I've been robbed, and it took a toll, but didn't shake my core beliefs.

[Jeffy25]

"A Conservative is a Liberal that has been mugged," my father used to say. It always seemed like a stupid statement - something bad happens to you, and you lose your idealism about life/society and become conservative? I've been robbed, and it took a toll, but didn't shake my core beliefs.

funny, my dad always told me "a conservative is a liberal who grew up."

Just funny....

and to edit....AOW at least you have a firm knowledge and understanding and back it up with your support....you are the type of liberal that I like. You understand what you believe, why you believe it, and you understand the other side...but still hold your beliefs....very respectable.

[ohms_law]

I'd also like to point out that Conservatism/Liberalism are relative labels. All that being Conservative means is that you largely support the traditional status quo, whatever that may be. All that being Liberal means is that you want to somehow change the traditional views.

Build a time machine to the 1800's and suddenly we're all super Liberal hippy freaks.

[Jeffy25]

Build a time machine to the 1800's and suddenly we're all super Liberal hippy freaks.

****

[HoustonGM]

Joe Scarborough: “Is there a liberal bias in the media or is the bias towards getting the story first and getting the highest ratings, therefore, making the most money?”
Former ABC 20/20 anchor Hugh Downs: “Well, I think the latter, by far. And, of course, when the word ‘liberal’ came to be a pejorative word, you began to wonder, you have to say that the press doesn’t want to be thought of as merely liberal. But people tend to be more liberated in their thought when they are closer to events and know a little more about what the background of what’s happening. So, I suppose, in that respect, there is a liberal, if you want to call it a bias. The press is a little more in touch with what’s happening.”
— MSNBC’s Scarborough Country, January 10, 2005.

He's saying "liberal" as in "free thinking", as he states, so, is that somehow a bad thing? To have a bias towards free thought?

“Most members of the establishment media live in Washington and New York. Most of them don’t drive pickup trucks, most of them don’t have guns, most of them don’t go to NASCAR, and every day we’re not out in areas that care about those things and deal with those things as part of their daily lives, we are out of touch with a lot of America and with a lot of America that supports George W. Bush.”
— ABC News Political Director Mark Halperin during live television coverage immediately before John Kerry’s concession speech on November 3, 2004.

How many rich conservative corporate businessmen are in touch with that segment of America? Yeah, George Bush, grew up in a family of wealth, attended Yale University, had a lot of stuff handed to him by his dad...yeah, he's really in touch with the average mid-Western farmer.

Now, there's no doubt that there are media outlets that ARE liberally biased, but it's equally true that there are media outlets that are biased the other way. I think it's false to state that the media is completely controlled by liberals.

I sent my dad an email this morning:

Are you kidding? Over 80 per cent of working journalists, when asked of their political leanings, say they consider themselves liberal or progressive. That happens for many reasons...especially college and j-school profs who are traditionally liberal. Most media ownership is conservative.

Well, I heard a reference to a survey yesterday that said that only 20% of Americans now identify themselves as Republican. So, I mean, if the country isn't evenly split, why would the media be?

It seems that most people working in media would be liberal. College (liberal arts, English, literature, journalism, etc) + desire to uncover truths and stand up for the little guy...defend the rights and such. (the people in my English and Lit classes tended to be liberal-minded; conservatives were more readily found in business admin, math or sciences, or in the frathouses.) The only media majority that would probably lean conservative would be editorial writers or talking heads, or radio "personalities" - and of course owners, as OFG pointed out. Owners like Fox make their presence extremely visible in how far outside the norm they push their programming; but others are much less authoritarian.

...etc

Just wanted to say that this was an excellent post.

and that couldn't be a bigger chunk of ******** if I have ever seen it. companies are ran by the people.....owners simply control the funds and direction...but by and large they are ran by the people.

I guess this depends entirely on what companies you're referring to.

well on your last paragraph...those possiblities still exist so deeming anyone neive for believing in those thoughts then you are just instigating a fight with someone. I don't, but I respect those that do and do not deem them morons.

I'll agree that believing in creationism doesn't make one moronic. I will call you a ***** if you insist that evolution does not exist, even though it's perfectly compatible with the idea of creationism. To quote Bill Maher, and yes, i know, liberal, ho ho ho, and half of this is for comedic effect, but nonetheless:

nd finally, New Rule: Since viruses, like swine flu, get to be potentially deadly because they "evolved," if you don't believe in evolution and you get it, you have to pray it away.

You can't crap all over Darwin and stem cell research and global warming and then come crawling back to science when you want Tamiflu. That's for us sinners.

A recent Zogby phone poll found that 78% of Americans favor teaching evidence for and against Darwin's theory; 43% also believe the pollster asking the question was in fact a tiny man living inside the phone.

Now, last week I spoke about Governor Rick Perry of Texas, who mentioned secession as an option for dealing with Obama's big government. But, now with swine flu from Mexico coming at him, suddenly the idea of being all alone on the border isn't quite so romantic, is it?

Yes, Governor Perry hates two things: government and science. He appointed a creationist to head the Texas Board of Education. Which is shocking. Texas has a board of education?! And now he wants 37,000 courses of antiviral flu medicine. Sorry, Rick, we're all out. But, we do have 37,000 tea bags. Will that help?

You know, is it too much to ask for a little consistency? When I get sick, you don't see me begging Jimmy Swaggart to put in a word to Jesus about my gout. I go to the doctor like a normal person, and then I sell the left over pills to Rush Limbaugh.

Folks, there is a lot that isn't known yet about this swine flu, but there is one thing that we do know: the process that brought us the new flu is called evolution. It's not rocket science, but it is science. A virus is Darwinian behavior we can see in real time. We can see that it jumps on a host, procreates until the host is exhausted and then jumps on something new. Like Mel Gibson.

Or think of it this way: viruses are like the free market. You adapt to survive or you die. I mean, except for Citibank and AIG and Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, General Motors, Bear Stearns... Okay, bad example. They're nothing like the free market.

And, by the way, intelligence-challenged members of the mainstream media, creationism and Darwinism are not "opposing but equally legitimate theories" to be treated as such. This flu virus didn't make the leap from pigs to humans because God felt like f*cking with Mexicans. It happened because, like I said, viruses adapt to survive. Just like all other organisms on Planet Earth. With the possible exception of the Republican National Committee.

I'd also like to point out that Conservatism/Liberalism are relative labels. All that being Conservative means is that you largely support the traditional status quo, whatever that may be. All that being Liberal means is that you want to somehow change the traditional views.

Build a time machine to the 1800's and suddenly we're all super Liberal hippy freaks.

Yep. True. And things are rarely ever black and white, as well. Very few people are fully "conservative" or fully "liberal." (Just, as an example, many would consider me "liberal"...yet I don't want to ban guns. I hate the liberal political correctness that exists. etc.)

[filihok]

The fact remains, the media in this country is, compared to other democracies in the world, right of center.

.