The 3 positions is appealing, but Crawford will give you back more value IMO and Ramirez has questions about his plate discipline and rightfully so.Originally Posted by dickay
Hail to the king, baby.
The 3 positions is appealing, but Crawford will give you back more value IMO and Ramirez has questions about his plate discipline and rightfully so.
Unapologetic Dodger Fan
I'm about to offer this (because he declined Huston Street straight up for any hitter)
I get: Alexei Ramirez, Chris Davis
I give: Chone Figgins/Rafael Furcal (one or the other) and Huston Street/Scott Baker (one or the other.
I want Alexei Ramirez for sure, and he wants to trade a 3B because he has three, should I ask for Davis or Chipper?
o
No, he's right on the money. Let's see what their respective projections are using an average of 4 projections available on FanGraphs (Bill James, CHONE, Marcel, ZiPS):
Crawford is listed first, Ramirez second. Runs and RBI's only take 4 of the systems into account as Oliver gives no projection for that.
AVG: .293/.289
HR: 11/19
R: 79/65
RBI: 65/74
SB: 36/12
Crawford's production is better, especially considering Crawford would replace Nady/Ibanez and Ramirez would replace Figgins. There's a reason Crawford's ADP is mid-2nd round and Ramirez early 4th.
o
Chipper. Offer Figgins/Street for Alexei/Chipper
Registered User
i don't have figgins, nady/ibanez numbers in front of me and i know you're much more quick to the trigger than i am to obtain them so i'll ask you to explain how. Off the top of my head, Nady/Ibanez are much better fantasy players than Figgins who really is only valuable for SB's. Figs is a big liability in the HR & RBI dept. He's got plenty of SB's already in Ichiro & Furcal and anyone who knows fantasy knows you dont draft SBs or saves as a priority. They can be obtained throughout the year. So with his current roster, as I said earlier, if my memory serves me right on figs stats and nady/ibanez, then ramirez is much more valuable. 2B is a very scarce position this year, and he brings power & RBI's along with some SB's.
Hail to the king, baby.
Ramirez has plate discipline to the likes of Yuni and he'll probably fall this year and Crawford is the more valuable hitter despite playing the OF. Also, having the best players at scarce positions has already been debunked. You're better off getting the best players and not just the best at weak positions. Take for instance catcher, the best catcher will probably be the 60th best fantasy hitter in most seasons (last year too), so is it worth reaching for a good catcher just so you have the best catcher? No.
o
Position scarcity absolutely must be accounted for, but I don't think it's enough in this particular case. It seems like a moot point though.
Registered User
seeing you didn't wanna look it up, i did and WOW i was sooo right!! Sure, if you let me choose one of the two players knowing nothing else, i'll take crawford. However;
Figgins in 08: .276BA, 1HR, 34SB, 22RBI...(YES 22 F'IN RBIS!!)
Ramirez in 08: .290BA, 21HR, 13SB, 77RBI...(young and now moved up in the linuep, more opportunity!)
Ibanez in 08: .293A, 23H, 1SB, 110RBI
His team has OK SB's already and needs some pop. 22RBIs is an absolute KILLER. It reminds me of Luis Castillo in his day who was also a one tool wonder but at least he got many more SB's than figs 34. Ibanez holds his own, and Nady is OK too...both will have better lineups to be around for a full year as well. Thus why I keep them over Figgins all day long in a no-brainer.
WTF does plate discipline have to do with anything in fantasy? he's never mentioned the categories so i assume its a 5X5 league meaning it means nothing. Position scarcity is HUGE in fantasy. Sure, you don't jump up and take a Catcher over many other top offensive talents but there is a point when you take that catcher over other decent talents merely because of the position he plays. He's got a HORRIFIC 2B right now, and if Nady/Ibanez for some reason bust, he's got a MUCH better opportunity of finding replacement value than he does finding a 2B on the FA market.Ramirez has plate discipline to the likes of Yuni and he'll probably fall this year and Crawford is the more valuable hitter despite playing the OF. Also, having the best players at scarce positions has already been debunked. You're better off getting the best players and not just the best at weak positions. Take for instance catcher, the best catcher will probably be the 60th best fantasy hitter in most seasons (last year too), so is it worth reaching for a good catcher just so you have the best catcher? No.
o
A player with terrible plate discipline is going to be less "stable", and is also going to be easier for pitchers to take advantage of once they accurately identify his weak spots. See Jeff Francoeur.
Registered User
and young talented players often improve their plate discipline with maturity and experience.
we can play the guessing game all day...however, looking at what they all did last year, he's a much more solid bet with all factors considered.
o
Often? Not really. Sometimes.
We should look at more than just last year.we can play the guessing game all day...however, looking at what they all did last year, he's a much more solid bet with all factors considered.
Registered User
wow, critique my use of the word "often" which in no way is a guarentee while using the word "is" in this sentence as its a foregone conclusion? See the issue?
o
There's nothing wrong there. A player with poor plate discipline is dependent on batting average. Batting average is unstable. Hence, poor plate discipline = unstable.
Registered User
LOL, and your concluding that Ramirez IS going to have poor plate discipline and that pitchers are going to be able to adjust to him.
Whatever...the stats are clear. With all factors reviewed, figgins and his horrific RBI potential has to go. Ramirez replacing Figs gives much much more than Crawford replacing Ibanez.
Hail to the king, baby.
It should be taken in to account, but not when you're talking about someone of Crawford's ability.
We're not concluding he IS going to have poor plate discipline, we're telling you he HAS poor plate discipline. He had an O-Swing% of 42.7% which is ridiculously high. And yes pitchers DID catch on.
I drafted Ramirez in our draft, but when it comes down to it Crawford is the better bet.There’s some method to Ramirez’s hacking madness, in that he does frequently put the bat on the ball, but such an approach could lead him prone to seeing an even steadier stream of curves and sliders. Such a trend becomes apparent when you look at Ramirez’s percentage of fastballs seen by month:
April: 51.9%
May: 52.8%
June: 49.7%
July: 47.7%
Aug.: 42.5%
Sept.: 43.9%
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