Fixing America's WBC approach for 2013

[dickay]

I agree with Dickay

I don't think the WBC needs fixed. Improved-sure-everything can always be improved.

Though, this is a tough one. The way they are doing it now, is probably the best way.

If the US WANTS to win in the WBC, then they need to find players that will commit to the WBC and get ready to play in the WBC instead of using the WBC to get ready for the major league season.

Since the major league season is what pays them millions of dollars, there might not be a lot of players who want to do that.

Its baseball in a small sample size. Not many will argue that top to bottom the US roster was the most talented. Over a season of play they would run away with a title. However, over a very short elimination series, anything is possible. I don't buy that these guys weren't trying or into it, its a cop out. I saw the WS like celebration after Wrights game winning hit.

Now sure, other nations are more "prepared" going into the WBC as they are in mid-season form. The talent on the US squad offsets that edge IMO and its not as if the US team players go to spring training out of shape. Most MLB players do not.

To me, the small sample size is the biggest reason the US lost. And I like the small do or die type tourney as its different. True, the best team doesn't always win. Thats life & thats baseball. Its still entertaining, and just because the US doesn't win, doesn't mean its broken.

[filihok]

Its baseball in a small sample size. Not many will argue that top to bottom the US roster was the most talented. Over a season of play they would run away with a title. However, over a very short elimination series, anything is possible. I don't buy that these guys weren't trying or into it, its a cop out. I saw the WS like celebration after Wrights game winning hit.

Now sure, other nations are more "prepared" going into the WBC as they are in mid-season form. The talent on the US squad offsets that edge IMO and its not as if the US team players go to spring training out of shape. Most MLB players do not.

To me, the small sample size is the biggest reason the US lost. And I like the small do or die type tourney as its different. True, the best team doesn't always win. Thats life & thats baseball. Its still entertaining, and just because the US doesn't win, doesn't mean its broken.

The thing is, though, especially with pitchers, and especially in a small sample size type of environment, players have to 'get their work in'. Pitchers have to pitch according to a schedule and not according to the situation.

Oswalt is in there to throw 85 pitches even if it is clear after 40 that he doesn't have it that day.

Jeter has to play shortstop because he has to get ready for the Yankee season and can't just DH

[dickay]

The thing is, though, especially with pitchers, and especially in a small sample size type of environment, players have to 'get their work in'. Pitchers have to pitch according to a schedule and not according to the situation.

Oswalt is in there to throw 85 pitches even if it is clear after 40 that he doesn't have it that day.

Jeter has to play shortstop because he has to get ready for the Yankee season and can't just DH

thats a fair point, and IMO;

1) I'd be fine if they kept that process...for the most part I view this as exhibition.

2) I'd be fine if they changed that process. They can allow teams to carry extra players so that they aren't overworking any bullpen arms, and Oswalt can get extra work in simulated games which I understand aren't as good as throwing 85 pitches live but if you're getting hammered its a fair trade off. Plus one could argue that the 40 he throws against WBC competition along with the addition 40 thrown after being taken out of the game in a simulated manner is worth equivalent to or even more than the 85 he'd throw in a spring training game that isn't taken nearly as seriously with players on a talent level less than what he's facing in the WBC.

As for Jeter...and playing in the field. I don't believe it takes alot to get "season ready" to play the field position. I've heard pros say as much, after a few innings in the field they are as ready as they're going to be. They've been there before, and Jeter has plenty of time, he doesn't need a full game everyday in the field.

[Joe12Pack]

Sure they came over to the major leagues and are not considered to be the best anymore, but again the major leagues isn't the American Only Leagues. Take out all players born in other countries and the gap lessens by quite a bit.

The point is, MLB is still majority American, and even many of these "foreign" players are, in fact, American. The point is, when mixed in with Americans and Dominicans, very few Japanese (successful in the NPB) can succeed. Practically no Koreans can succeed.

Which is ignorant.

Not really, because let's face it, neither you nor I are going to really delve into the finer points of KBO or Dutch baseball, and neither of us have the resources to do so properly. But we're going to discuss it either way. You're claiming Asian baseball is more or less on par with American baseball, probably without having done any more research than I have.

You don't have to be a full-on expert to discuss a topic.

Yes, because we all know the only reason players in other countries AREN'T playing here is because they don't have the talent and NOTHING ELSE. No language barrier, no wanting to live in your country you grew up in, NOTHING.

The Dominicans sure seem to have manned up and gotten over those problems.

Also, "language barrier" for a Spanish speaker in MLB? Or even in America, period? Taking a poor life in a third world country over a rich life in a leading nation where you can give back to your old country and still live their half the year? Give me a break. Dude, seriously, come on...

Again you keep comparing leagues which isn't what the WBC is about, it's the best talent. If you took the best prospects from the minors and put them all in a team I'm guessing they could win their fair share of games at the MLB level because the top talent from the minors is probably decent. Not saying other countries are minor league teams but just illustrating the point it's the best players and not the league.

That was a really poor and pointless analogy.

I'm comparing leagues because MLB is majority American, and even if you remove the foreign BORN players, you could more than fill up a league the size of the NPB with MLB-quality teams. I'm comparing leagues because, hey, guess what, the Japanese team happens to be made up of 90% NPB players, and the Korean team happens to be made up of 99% KBO players, and the American team was made up of 100% MLB players.

I wasn't aware you can play 15-20 OF's in a game now.

You know what I meant.

If the top 3 American outfielders are better than the top 3 from the Dominican then that's great (without any research and going off the top of my head they probably are), but it isn't a HUGE gap. Again, we're talking about the best on a team, not the nations leagues.

You seriously can't think of 3 American outfielders better than the Dominican outfield from the WBC?

i'm short on time, so i'll add two comments on what i've read thus far;

1) funny how the WBC needs to be "fixed" and the main question regarding why was wondering why the Americans didn't win. Had they won would this thread have been started?

I'd like to refer you to the title of the thread.

[OldFatGuy]

I'd like to refer you to the title of the thread.

Nice. Short, to the point, and correct.


If I were in charge (LOL, well, you did ask for thoughts ), I would do two things that I think would help America's approach.

1) I would keep the double elimination format but would trash the last game in rounds 1 and 2 that were played only to determine seeding. Seeding can be determined in the first 2 games of each round. The two winners of the first game play, and the winner not only automatically advances (as is the case in this years), but the winner is the Pool champ. Then the second team advancing is determined just like this years. This eliminates one extra day in the first two rounds, shortening the event by two days.

2) I would start spring training a week early like this year, BUT, I would play the WBC the very LAST week of spring training, the week before the regular MLB season starts. The WBC championship game could be on Saturday afternoon (WOW, imagine that, baseball played under the SUN!), leaving travel time for players to get to opening day on MONDAY (Sorry ESPN Sunday night baseball, you can cover the WBC and every 4 years you lose one Sunday night game, deal with it.).

There. Shortened, the tourney could start one Thursday and be over the next Saturday. Round 1 Thurs/Fri/Sat, Round 2 Mon/Tue/Wed, Semis Friday, Championship Saturday. Or move it all up one day. Played at the end of spring training rather than the beginning means players are in better shape.

Done.

Gnight.

[dickay]

I'd like to refer you to the title of the thread.

I'd like to refer you to the first paragraph of this thread;

The Latin American teams were, of course, loaded with talent, but the American squad was clearly the best overall on paper. Spectacular hitting, very good infield defense, top quality starting pitching, and a tremendous and deep bullpen.

and the first sentence of the second paragraph;

So what happened?

So again, if team USA had won, would this whole thread have been started? Personally, even in losing I don't think anything needs to be fixed.

While I agree with alot of what you're posting in reference to Americas talent, I don't agree that them not winning the tourney had to do with anything more than just pure small sample size anyone can beat anyone on any given sunday.

Nice. Short, to the point, and correct.

OFG reaching for something to disagree with me on? There's a shocker.

BUT, I would play the WBC the very LAST week of spring training, the week before the regular MLB season starts.

I don't recall what show it was, but about a week ago this was mentioned on WEEI with Larry Lucchino (him or Henry, I really didn't get very involved in the dialog). If I recall correctly Lucchino had stated this had been discussed and in general the overwhelming majority of owners were adament about having their complete rosters for that final week at the end of spring training. While he said he wouldn't speak for them individually, the Red Sox would not go for it.

[OldFatGuy]

OFG reaching for something to disagree with me on? There's a shocker.

Not having a clue what the words "Fixing America's WBC Approach" mean. Now there's a shocker.

I think it's pretty obvious if the American's had won the WBC, then their approach wouldn't need fixing, yes???

I mean, "Fixing the Phillies Approach To MLB" would be a lot less likely thread to see this year then say, "Fixing the Nationals Approach to MLB."

[dickay]

Not having a clue what the words "Fixing America's WBC Approach" mean. Now there's a shocker.

Not reading and grasping simple concepts. Now there's a shocker.

We can go on all day. Its pretty clear from his first two paragraphs, he was questioning why USA lost and ideas to "fix their approach". So again, if they had won, would their approach have been broken. Cmon now, even an old fat guy can grasp that.

[Joe12Pack]

Good points, dickay, especially regarding sample size (which I gave a nod to in the first post). I think it was a little more than just that though, and I think it was fairly obvious that America had some weaknesses.

Before the tournament, America looked better, but it became apparent in the game against Japan, and in some of the games prior, that America had overall poor defense, poor coaching, didn't use their pitching staff that well, and was handcuffed by the MLB season. These are things that weren't really on paper beforehand.

I'm actually thinking we should approach the thing more like the Japanese and Koreans do. Be prepared, take it more seriously, put our best foot forward, and don't treat it like a Cactus League game or some kind of novelty joke game.

Call me crazy, but I'm pissed that my country, the same country that made baseball what it is and clearly has owned the sport and has arguably the greatest talent in the world (I feel it's obvious, especially in terms of pitching, but I'll throw a bone to the anti-American sentiment) was shown up by a team that I know is made up of inferior talent.

Could America have won in spite of what they did? Who knows. Moot point, because it didn't happen. Would this thread exist if they had won? Another moot point, because it didn't happen.

Although I'm sure I'd still be more than vocal about things like Adam Dunn's poor defense and lack of an all-around game, the use of pitching, etc.

[OldFatGuy]

So again, if they had won, would their approach have been broken.

Whadda you think?

Come on now, even a complete imbecile can get this one.

And you're right we can go on all day long.

Bring it.

[etothep]

simplest way to fix this is to make average run of the mill baseball fans care about it...like me, i couldn't possibly care any less about it win or lose

[Arctic Blast]

My dad made the same argument today, that the almighty dollar will always win over the national flag/banner... I think that's simply ridiculous. The World Baseball Classic should take precedence over a meaningless season once compared to a game played on a national level. Congratulations, you win the World Series! You are the best team in America (and one team in Canada)! Now prove to the REST OF THE WORLD you Americans are truly better at baseball. So far we haven't done that. So far, Cuba, Venezuela, Japan, and Korea are all better at baseball than us Americans. That's just disgraceful. It's that kind of me-first thinking that will ruin our nation and the entire world one day.

How is that ridiculous, from the team standpoint? Why, if I'm the owner of a team, would I want my $150 million investment out there pitching or running around for any other team, PERIOD? I'm the one paying him, NOT his national team.

[filihok]

Because expanding MLB into the world market will make you more money in the long run? You greedy *******

[asianinvasion]

Practically no Koreans can succeed.

That's a bit ignorant isn't it? Chan Ho Park is having a great career in the MLB. He's been an All-Star and if you take out his Texas stats, is a great pitcher. Other Koreans like Shin-Soo Choo, Byung-Hyun Kim and Cha Seung Baek have played well in the MLB. Even guys like Hee-seop Choi got to the Majors.

[Joe12Pack]

That's a bit ignorant isn't it?

Merely the facts. Sorry if you don't like them and want to pretend that they're different.

Chan Ho Park is having a great career in the MLB.

Are you thinking of the same Chan Ho Park that I am? I'm a Dodger fan and I mostly love the guy, but I'm not gonna claim he's having a "great" career by any means.

He's been an All-Star and if you take out his Texas stats, is a great pitcher.

Oh, so if you remove half his career, he's great.

Other Koreans like Shin-Soo Choo, Byung-Hyun Kim and Cha Seung Baek have played well in the MLB.

Listing a guy with 159 career GP, a guy who completely blew up after a few good seasons as a reliever, and a dude with a 86 career ERA+ hardly stands against my argument that practically no Koreans can succeed.

Even guys like Hee-seop Choi got to the Majors.

Thanks for helping my point.

Point being: They sure can get there, a few of them can be serviceable, but there's practically no Korean impact on MLB.