Official 2009 Toronto Blue Jays Thread

[RedsoxRockies]

Toronto has a rich baseball history too. 12 HOFers (excluding ones that played for the Jays) spent time here either on the way up or on the way down. Maybe you recognize some of them: Sparky Anderson, Ed Barrow, Dan Brouthers, Hugh Duffy, Charlie Gehringer, Burleigh Grimes, Carl Hubbell, "Wee" Willie Keeler, Joe Kelley, Ralph Kiner, Nap Lajoie, and Heinie Manush. Non-HOFers include Buck Freeman, Reggie Smith and Urban Shocker. Some 19 year old punk named Babe Ruth (what kind of a name is that?) hit the first professional homerun of his career here. Still in Canada, but not Toronto, before his cleats ever touched the turf at Ebbets Field, Jackie Robinson debuted up here in Montreal with the Royals.

It's not enough that I have to put up with a sports media that's 95% hockey, which has made me hate a game I used to love, but then I have to listen to the uninformed that think that all Canadians do is play hockey, watch hockey, eat backbacon drizzled in maple syrup and wash it down with beer. Baseball fandom may not be as widespread as it is in your country, but those that are fans are huge fans and know the game inside out because we've had to overcome the hockey, hockey, hockey, hockey, hockey that's incessantly shoved down our throats.

So endeth the rant. Not necessarily all directed at you koolzach1 but at anyone who spreads these ridiculous stereotypes. You just provided the trigger. Sensitive? Yep, no denying it. Also fed up with these stupid Canadianisms.

Eh?

[Rongar]

Also fed up with these stupid Canadianisms.

Eh?....now wot Canajunisms would they be?

[Rongar]

Eh?

Good onya, RSR...you pipped me by five minutes!:

[200tang]

It sucks that you guys were basically a top 10 and possibly a top 5 team last year, but because you were in the AL East it pretty much equaled fail

[actionjackson]

I'll say it right now...our beer sucks just as hard as American swill does, and I HATE maple syrup.

Not micro-breweries, but then again there are probably great micro-breweries in the States too.

[actionjackson]

Lol, wow, I am glad that you have a strong passion for baseball, but......
I wasn't talking about how baseball isn't relevant up in Canada. I was just kidding about how the Toronto Blue Jays have been irrelevant for quite some time. They weren't bad last year, it was mostly just a poke at them because they haven't made any big moves for awhile... or even semi-big moves.

Typical Yankee fan shiite. This team can't just walk out there and buy replacements for Shaun Marcum, Dustin McGowan, Casey Janssen, a shortstop, a first baseman etc etc etc. I'm so sorry we can't all be like you your royal Yankeeness. We have to draft and develop our players and make judicious trades and sign the occasional free agent like 90% of the rest of MLB teams, some of whom can't even do the free agent thing. It was decided that payroll would be reduced from about $100 million to $80 million, partly due to the exchange rate which has changed drastically in the past year. Somewhat difficult to make big splashes and slash payroll, unless of course $80 million worth of payroll magically disappears from your roster in one offseason.

As for this notion that they haven't made any big moves for awhile, that's a load of bunk unless you're looking for big moves on a Yankee/Red Sox scale. They made big moves when they could (Burnett, Ryan, Glaus, Frank Thomas, Rolen, Overbay [trade, not the subsequent 4 year deal]) using clauses and bonuses to keep the overall contract sizes from getting too large and scaled back when they had to. Did all of these work? Hell no, do any team's? Some of the players they re-upped with (Halladay, Downs, Wells, Rios, Hill) turned out OK as well.

As far as I'm concerned J.P. Ricciardi has been a push as a GM, but that's not going to cut it in this division with the behemoths and the exuberant Rays, not to mention the improving Orioles. It appears in the last year or so he's kind of thrown his hands up in frustration or resignation, which is understandable but not something you want to see from your GM in a division like this. He appears to be operating on cruise control and he's definitely getting more punchy with media and fans as his various and sundry recent PR gaffes demonstrate. If you're looking for a big move koolzach1, it appears that it's being put on hold until he gets canned. I wouldn't look for any big splashy moves after that either as I would hope as a fan that whoever succeeds him will start with the minor league system and build from the ground up. It's the only way to compete in the East and it's the only way to get back to being one of the best expansion franchises in the history of the game.

[Arctic Blast]

Not micro-breweries, but then again there are probably great micro-breweries in the States too.

Agreed. Also, agreed with your response to koolzach.

[gosensgo101]

Typical Yankee fan shiite. This team can't just walk out there and buy replacements for Shaun Marcum, Dustin McGowan, Casey Janssen, a shortstop, a first baseman etc etc etc. I'm so sorry we can't all be like you your royal Yankeeness. We have to draft and develop our players and make judicious trades and sign the occasional free agent like 90% of the rest of MLB teams, some of whom can't even do the free agent thing. It was decided that payroll would be reduced from about $100 million to $80 million, partly due to the exchange rate which has changed drastically in the past year. Somewhat difficult to make big splashes and slash payroll, unless of course $80 million worth of payroll magically disappears from your roster in one offseason.

As for this notion that they haven't made any big moves for awhile, that's a load of bunk unless you're looking for big moves on a Yankee/Red Sox scale. They made big moves when they could (Burnett, Ryan, Glaus, Frank Thomas, Rolen, Overbay [trade, not the subsequent 4 year deal]) using clauses and bonuses to keep the overall contract sizes from getting too large and scaled back when they had to. Did all of these work? Hell no, do any team's? Some of the players they re-upped with (Halladay, Downs, Wells, Rios, Hill) turned out OK as well.

As far as I'm concerned J.P. Ricciardi has been a push as a GM, but that's not going to cut it in this division with the behemoths and the exuberant Rays, not to mention the improving Orioles. It appears in the last year or so he's kind of thrown his hands up in frustration or resignation, which is understandable but not something you want to see from your GM in a division like this. He appears to be operating on cruise control and he's definitely getting more punchy with media and fans as his various and sundry recent PR gaffes demonstrate. If you're looking for a big move koolzach1, it appears that it's being put on hold until he gets canned. I wouldn't look for any big splashy moves after that either as I would hope as a fan that whoever succeeds him will start with the minor league system and build from the ground up. It's the only way to compete in the East and it's the only way to get back to being one of the best expansion franchises in the history of the game.

Completely agree, especially about the "JP should be fired" part.

[koolzach1]

Typical Yankee fan shiite. This team can't just walk out there and buy replacements for Shaun Marcum, Dustin McGowan, Casey Janssen, a shortstop, a first baseman etc etc etc. I'm so sorry we can't all be like you your royal Yankeeness. We have to draft and develop our players and make judicious trades and sign the occasional free agent like 90% of the rest of MLB teams, some of whom can't even do the free agent thing. It was decided that payroll would be reduced from about $100 million to $80 million, partly due to the exchange rate which has changed drastically in the past year. Somewhat difficult to make big splashes and slash payroll, unless of course $80 million worth of payroll magically disappears from your roster in one offseason.

As for this notion that they haven't made any big moves for awhile, that's a load of bunk unless you're looking for big moves on a Yankee/Red Sox scale. They made big moves when they could (Burnett, Ryan, Glaus, Frank Thomas, Rolen, Overbay [trade, not the subsequent 4 year deal]) using clauses and bonuses to keep the overall contract sizes from getting too large and scaled back when they had to. Did all of these work? Hell no, do any team's? Some of the players they re-upped with (Halladay, Downs, Wells, Rios, Hill) turned out OK as well.

As far as I'm concerned J.P. Ricciardi has been a push as a GM, but that's not going to cut it in this division with the behemoths and the exuberant Rays, not to mention the improving Orioles. It appears in the last year or so he's kind of thrown his hands up in frustration or resignation, which is understandable but not something you want to see from your GM in a division like this. He appears to be operating on cruise control and he's definitely getting more punchy with media and fans as his various and sundry recent PR gaffes demonstrate. If you're looking for a big move koolzach1, it appears that it's being put on hold until he gets canned. I wouldn't look for any big splashy moves after that either as I would hope as a fan that whoever succeeds him will start with the minor league system and build from the ground up. It's the only way to compete in the East and it's the only way to get back to being one of the best expansion franchises in the history of the game.

Me thinks that you are being a little too defensive....

I definitely am not gonna apologize or take back what I said, though... Toronto is irrelevant in baseball right now. You say that the Jays cannot just go out and "buy" another pitcher to replace your injured ones... Well, isn't Toronto a really large market? IMO, you should be able to go out and at least get some innings eaters... Maybe make a splash and pursue Perez/Pedro. Maybe move Hill back to SS and put Grudz or Durham at 2B... just a little constructive criticism. Plus, I wouldn't really say that Thomas, Rolen, or Overbay were exactly big moves. They were decent moves, but nothing major. Also, your GM has raped the team by signing bad contracts like Overbay, and Wells.

Anyways, good luck in building from the farm system, when you're consistently average/above average and getting picks in the mid/late first round.

[gosensgo101]

Me thinks that you are being a little too defensive....

I definitely am not gonna apologize or take back what I said, though... Toronto is irrelevant in baseball right now. You say that the Jays cannot just go out and "buy" another pitcher to replace your injured ones... Well, isn't Toronto a really large market?

Sure, Toronto has a big population, but not nearly as many baseball fans as New York and most other american cities.

IMO, you should be able to go out and at least get some innings eaters... Maybe make a splash and pursue Perez/Pedro. Maybe move Hill back to SS and put Grudz or Durham at 2B... just a little constructive criticism.

I wouldn't exactly call Perez or Pedro a splash. And what are Grudzelanek and/or Durham going to do that Marco Scutaro can't? And, where do you get off critizising fans for what our GM is doing?

Plus, I wouldn't really say that Thomas, Rolen, or Overbay were exactly big moves. They were decent moves, but nothing major. Also, your GM has raped the team by signing bad contracts like Overbay, and Wells.

Agreed. But you can't say Cashman hasn't made any bad signings. And, our point is that Overbay, Thomas and Rolen were the biggest moves we could make within our budget. If the Jays make a mistake, they can't just shrug it off, they have to pay for it. Mistakes come with consequences up here.

Anyways, good luck in building from the farm system, when you're consistently average/above average and getting picks in the mid/late first round.

Any competent GM/front office should be able to build a farm without having high picks. In baseball more than any other sport, you can find gems not just further down in the 1st round, but deep in the draft.

[gosensgo101]

And in other news, the Jays will likely sign Shawn Hill once he clears release waivers. A good pick up i think.

[koolzach1]

Sure, Toronto has a big population, but not nearly as many baseball fans as New York and most other american cities.



I wouldn't exactly call Perez or Pedro a splash. And what are Grudzelanek and/or Durham going to do that Marco Scutaro can't? And, where do you get off critizising fans for what our GM is doing?



Agreed. But you can't say Cashman hasn't made any bad signings. And, our point is that Overbay, Thomas and Rolen were the biggest moves we could make within our budget. If the Jays make a mistake, they can't just shrug it off, they have to pay for it. Mistakes come with consequences up here.



Any competent GM/front office should be able to build a farm without having high picks. In baseball more than any other sport, you can find gems not just further down in the 1st round, but deep in the draft.

Perez and Pedro wouldn't be big splashes, but they would definitely be upgrades over what you currently have... and I am not criticizing the fans for their crappy GM. Though, maybe fans should start coming to games more often. Their must not be very many competent GM's then... because most teams that have a top farm system have had very good picks to work with. Notice how the top tier teams don't always have great farm systems.

[HoustonGM]

Perez and Pedro wouldn't be big splashes, but they would definitely be upgrades over what you currently have... and I am not criticizing the fans for their crappy GM. Though, maybe fans should start coming to games more often. Their must not be very many competent GM's then... because most teams that have a top farm system have had very good picks to work with. Notice how the top tier teams don't always have great farm systems.

The Athletics went from a consensus bottom 5 farm system the last 3 years or so up to a consensus top 3 farm system...and it wasn't by drafting. Same with Texas. Also, for the last few years, the Red Sox had a consensus top 5/10 farm system, and they, obviously, haven't had many good picks to work with. Your Yankees, also, in 2007 and 2008, were a highly rated farm system.

And on the flipside, the Royals (until recently) and the Pirates have long been staples at the bottom of farm system rankings, while also being staples at the top of the draft.

[RedsoxRockies]

The Athletics went from a consensus bottom 5 farm system the last 3 years or so up to a consensus top 3 farm system...and it wasn't by drafting. Same with Texas. Also, for the last few years, the Red Sox had a consensus top 5/10 farm system, and they, obviously, haven't had many good picks to work with. Your Yankees, also, in 2007 and 2008, were a highly rated farm system.

And on the flipside, the Royals (until recently) and the Pirates have long been staples at the bottom of farm system rankings, while also being staples at the top of the draft.

It all relates to the resources a team has and puts towards scouting and development.

[Arctic Blast]

Perez and Pedro wouldn't be big splashes, but they would definitely be upgrades over what you currently have... and I am not criticizing the fans for their crappy GM. Though, maybe fans should start coming to games more often. Their must not be very many competent GM's then... because most teams that have a top farm system have had very good picks to work with. Notice how the top tier teams don't always have great farm systems.

Okay, WHY would fans start showing up in droves?

"Oh, our team, which has been average to above average for the past 15 years, looks like an absolute mound of crap this year...let's get tickets!"

If I was in a major league town and had tickets, but year after year after year the team didn't progress at all, and then basically fell apart, I sure as Hell wouldn't buy tickets.