Organizational Rankings

[HoustonGM]

Phillies at #14....I may have been overrating them when I put them in my "top 5" thing....but one spot away from the Mariners? Blah.

I like this though, lol:

One quick note before we get to the next report - due to the Nationals inexplicable decision to release Shawn Hill yesterday, they’ve been dropped a spot on the list. They now rank #31, and we’ve promoted the North Carolina Tar Heels to the #30 spot. At least they have a few quality big league players and aren’t run by consulting the magic 8 ball.

[OldFatGuy]

One quick note before we get to the next report - due to the Nationals inexplicable decision to release Shawn Hill yesterday, they’ve been dropped a spot on the list. They now rank #31, and we’ve promoted the North Carolina Tar Heels to the #30 spot. At least they have a few quality big league players and aren’t run by consulting the magic 8 ball.

I guess the only thing worse than being GMed by Jim Bowden is being Gmed by nobody.

EDIT: To be fair though, I don't see the big deal about releasing Shawn Hill. Sure, he showed some promise, but so have a thousand other youngsters that never materialized. And he's constantly hurt, even though they protected him like a baby, (so please don't get me started on pitch counts again). So this is another case of someone just looking at the stats on paper rather than the human being when they criticize this move.

[200tang]

even if he does have injury problems he's a better option than their other options which is why it's such a weird move.

[HoustonGM]

They're not losing much by keeping him, though, is the point. He's not blocking anybody...he's not making a ton of money...

[OldFatGuy]

even if he does have injury problems he's a better option than their other options which is why it's such a weird move.

Paying him nearly $1 million a year (I think his salary was over $700K) for nothing is a better option than paying him 1/6 (I think I read somewhere he gets 1/6 his salary because of his release) for nothing.

How is paying 1/6 as much for nothing not a better option?

[HoustonGM]

You're paying for the chance that he is something. It's not that much money.

[OldFatGuy]

OK, fair enough, so you're agreeing it's a gamble.

I agree it's a gamble. I guess the Nats have decided they've gambled enough with him. Ok, you disagree. I could see it either way. My point is it's not that big of deal to make that smart ass comment that North Carolina should be moved up. Releasing say, I dunno, Dunn right after signing him $20 million would've warranted a smart ass remark, well, it would've warranted a trip to the nearest mental institution.

But this just wasn't some outrageous move. The Nats signed Beimel, they had to make room, and decided they're tired of gambling with Hill. Just not a big deal to me. But if you looked strictly at his stats (which I still say is what's going on here), then you might say "WOW, what are the Nats thinking??? Did they not see that potential there???"

The Nats saw it. They've seen the whole package for three years now, the whole package that includes constant elbow and other arm problems, and have decided it's enough. I just don't see the big "BONEHEAD" move in that decision.

[OldFatGuy]

LOL, and right after I typed the above I read Fili's LA Dodgers thread and it appears the Dodgers have made the exact same decision about Yhency Brazoban, another pitcher that seemed to have promise but was always hurt.

[HoustonGM]

But this just wasn't some outrageous move. The Nats signed Beimel, they had to make room, and decided they're tired of gambling with Hill. Just not a big deal to me. But if you looked strictly at his stats (which I still say is what's going on here), then you might say "WOW, what are the Nats thinking??? Did they not see that potential there???"

I don't think it's too much about the stats... He had a very good 2007 in 16 starts, but as sucked besides that. It's more that he's a guy with some upside, a risk, yes, but not a guy you should just give up on so long as he's cheap. Beimel was a nice move...I think they should've dropped one of their 15,000 outfielders for him, though.

[HoustonGM]

LOL, and right after I typed the above I read Fili's LA Dodgers thread and it appears the Dodgers have made the exact same decision about Yhency Brazoban, another pitcher that seemed to have promise but was always hurt.

Also, a reliever, with no record of success in the majors, and less in the minors than Hill...and less of a scouting pedigree.

[OldFatGuy]

I don't think it's too much about the stats... He had a very good 2007 in 16 starts, but as sucked besides that. It's more that he's a guy with some upside, a risk, yes, but not a guy you should just give up on so long as he's cheap. Beimel was a nice move...I think they should've dropped one of their 15,000 outfielders for him, though.

His stats have sucked since 2007 because he's been hurt since 2007. He's pitched with pain in his elbow and his stats suffered.

But I agree with you on the outfielder thing. Corey Patterson comes to mind immediately.

EDIT: Sorry, couldn't help the CP remark. Seriously, another outfielder that they've kept that is, IMO, overrated is Austen Kearns (spelling???). He's an average OF, with a decent arm, a little pop in his bat, but no plate discipline and not good at hitting for average either. There must be a gazillion outfielders that fit that description, I would think.

[200tang]

Also, a reliever, with no record of success in the majors, and less in the minors than Hill...and less of a scouting pedigree.

The Dodgers are also nowhere near as in bad shape as the Nats are

[filihok]

The Dodgers are also nowhere in as bad shape as the Nats are

Yhency Brazoban at his best wouldn't help us (LA) near as much as Shawn Hill at his best would help the Nats.

The Nats know more about him though, and if they decide it's time to cut bait, I don't think I can argue.

Maybe LA can sign him and He, Schmidt and 28 other guys can each make a start as our 5th starter this season.

[200tang]

Honestly though OFG, our clubs (Mariners / Nationals) need to be taking chances on these high risk / somewhat high reward guys. Our clubs are both in pretty bad shape for the immediate future and our clubs are the ones that need to be taking chances. Look at what the Mariners have done this off-season so far, they've been grabbing guys left and right who have proven track records in the minors or relievers with no command but great stuff in hopes that at least someone will pan out.

Jose Lugo, 10.5% BB%, 24.2% K%, 56% GB%
David Aardsma, 15.4% BB%, 21.5% K%, 44% GB%
Tyler Walker, 9% BB%, 21.6% K%, 46% GB%
Luis Pena, 19.3% BB%, 20.2% K%, 47% GB%
Jesus Delgado, 12.9% BB%, 21.7% K%, 52% GB%

all those guys were picked up this off-season and it's something bad clubs should do. Grab as many 'free' high risk/upside guys as you can and hope one or two of them can pan out. Tha's really the big problem with the move IMO. Daniel Cabrera is someone who I really like for the Nats. He's always had good enough pitches to succeed at the major league level, but he can never put together a good season and he's a great fit for a team trying to put together talent.

Our teams can afford to and should take risks.

[OldFatGuy]

Honestly though OFG, our clubs (Mariners / Nationals) need to be taking chances on these high risk / somewhat high reward guys. Our clubs are both in pretty bad shape for the immediate future and our clubs are the ones that need to be taking chances. Look at what the Mariners have done this off-season so far, they've been grabbing guys left and right who have proven track records in the minors or relievers with no command but great stuff in hopes that at least someone will pan out.

Jose Lugo, 10.5% BB%, 24.2% K%, 56% GB%
David Aardsma, 15.4% BB%, 21.5% K%, 44% GB%
Tyler Walker, 9% BB%, 21.6% K%, 46% GB%
Luis Pena, 19.3% BB%, 20.2% K%, 47% GB%
Jesus Delgado, 12.9% BB%, 21.7% K%, 52% GB%

all those guys were picked up this off-season and it's something bad clubs should do. Grab as many 'free' high risk/upside guys as you can and hope one or two of them can pan out. Tha's really the big problem with the move IMO. Daniel Cabrera is someone who I really like for the Nats. He's always had good enough pitches to succeed at the major league level, but he can never put together a good season and he's a great fit for a team trying to put together talent.

I hear you on the premise of we have to take chances, and I get that, and agree with it somewhat (I don't know about the Mariners, but the Nats don't get their own TV revenues, so resources are always a problem), so we can't just sign every able bodied possibility available.

DISCLAIMER: I'm always bringing up the thing about the Orioles getting the Nats TV revenue, and I still say it's wrong. But the thing is, I really have no idea what real impact that has, in terms of real dollars. It might not be as big a deal as I make it out in my mind, though it is still wrong IMO.

I hope the Cabrera thing works out, but I'm not holding my breath. Cabrera has some nice stuff, but he wouldn't know the strike zone if you formally introduced him to it prior to each inning. The thing with him is, he's had ample time now to see if he would learn command, and he hasn't.

I don't have stats at my fingertips like you guys do, but I'd be willing to bet his BB/9 is still AWFUL, even after, what, is it two or three full seasons of starts now?? If the guy hasn't found command by now, chances are he won't. And without some control, major league pitchers can have great stuff and still fail. The best pitch in baseball always has been strike one.

But I hope he works out. I hope Dunn continues to produce like he did in Cincy even though any opposing manager with half a brain would be foolish to ever throw him a strike in this lineup. And I hope Shawn Hill finds success even it it's not with the Nats. But mostly I just think while you can question releasing Hill, it wasn't THAT big of a deal, certainly not worthy of "We're going to promote the North Carolina TarHeels to the 30 spot." I'll take my Nats against the North Carolina Tar Heels in a 162 game season. All day long.

EDIT: OFF TOPIC. Guess what happens when you unplug your mouse, grab the wire, twirl it around several times to build up speed, then fling it as hard as you can into a cinderblock wall. IT FRIGGIN EXPLODES. And the pleasure was nearly as good as sex. If only I could remember what that pleasure was like.