Is Theo really a good GM?

[Clay Dreslough]

People have criticized the over-priced free agent signings (Drew, Lugo), but I never see anyone pick on the Beckett trade. I realize the Beckett went 4-0 in the 2007 post-season. But he was horrible in the 2008 post-season.

And the Red Sox traded Hanley Ramirez, an MVP candidate (with a modest salary) to get Beckett. At this point, I'd rather still have Hanley, even though Beckett has indeed lived up to expectations.

Thoughts?

[StreetMedic]

Fair enough, but I'm not so sure they bring home the World Championship in 2007 without him, though, Clay...

[acetoolguy]

I'll take a WS now for a future MVP.....heck I'd take a WS now for a future HOF'er. Hanley looks to be great, but might blow his knee out tuesday.

[RedsoxRockies]

We also got Mike Lowell...

[StreetMedic]

We also got Mike Lowell...

Oof. That's right. Good point.

Shame on me for not thinking of it.

[daves]

People have criticized the over-priced free agent signings (Drew, Lugo), but I never see anyone pick on the Beckett trade. I realize the Beckett went 4-0 in the 2007 post-season. But he was horrible in the 2008 post-season.

And the Red Sox traded Hanley Ramirez, an MVP candidate (with a modest salary) to get Beckett. At this point, I'd rather still have Hanley, even though Beckett has indeed lived up to expectations.

Thoughts?

It is hard to argue against success. He made the right moves to win at the time and brought the Championship to Boston. In order to do that you may have to sacrifice a quality prospect like Hanley. But I am sure it hurts now.

[RedsoxRockies]

Also, it is not like Beckett is ancient or washed up, he is a great starter

[Clay Dreslough]

Anytime you win the ALCS in 7 games you can make the argument that you would have lost that series without any single one of your key players, especially the guy who won two games.

But Lugo went 5-for-25 in that series. And Jed Lowrie went 3-for-18 in the 2008 ALCS.

Without Beckett, their chances of winning in 2007 probably go down. Although who knows what pitchers we could have signed if we'd combined the Beckett and Lugo money into one big pile.

[RedsoxRockies]

Anytime you win the ALCS in 7 games you can make the argument that you would have lost that series without any single one of your key players, especially the guy who won two games.

But Lugo went 5-for-25 in that series. And Jed Lowrie went 3-for-18 in the 2008 ALCS.

Without Beckett, their chances of winning in 2007 probably go down. Although who knows what pitchers we could have signed if we'd combined the Beckett and Lugo money into one big pile.

You can't base a good signing or trade solely off of the post season....

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

For what it's worth, Theo didn't make the Beckett trade. That trade was made after he resigned while Cherington and Hoyer were sharing the GM title.

He's made some bad signings and trades, but he's drafted excellently. I think he's a great GM.

[RedsoxRockies]

For what it's worth, Theo didn't make the Beckett trade. That trade was made after he resigned while Cherington and Hoyer were sharing the GM title.

He's made some bad signings and trades, but he's drafted excellently. I think he's a great GM.

Exactly. There have been plenty worse. Remember LAD and Schmidt/Jones, or NYY and Pavano, or SFG and Rowand and Zito....

[Clay Dreslough]

You can't base a good signing or trade solely off of the post season....

Agreed. But the post-season is the only argument that you can make that Beckett has been more valuable than Hanley Ramirez. In the regular season, Beckett has been inconsistent and Hanley has been the next coming of Nomar (but with much more speed).

[RedsoxRockies]

Agreed. But the post-season is the only argument that you can make that Beckett has been more valuable than Hanley Ramirez. In the regular season, Beckett has been inconsistent and Hanley has been the next coming of Nomar (but with much more speed).

2007 was great for Beckett, 2008 was actually not as bad as most think. AND your forgetting a certain Mike Lowell. Yes, Boston also traded Anibal Sanchez, but he has become a medical nightmare. I am not saying Beckett is better then Hanley, but look at the deal from all sides.

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

but look at the deal from all sides.

Including the side where Theo didn't orchestrate the deal at all, because he wasn't GM at the time!

The Beckett - Hanley trade is moot when discussing Theo's record as a GM because Cherington and Hoyer were the GM's at the time, and IIRC a lot of people thought it was Lucchino pulling the strings on that deal to make people forget about Theo as a GM.

[RedsoxRockies]

Including the side where Theo didn't orchestrate the deal at all, because he wasn't GM at the time!

The Beckett - Hanley trade is moot when discussing Theo's record as a GM because Cherington and Hoyer were the GM's at the time, and IIRC a lot of people thought it was Lucchino pulling the strings on that deal to make people forget about Theo as a GM.

Yes I know. But he is claiming it was a bad deal, so I am discussing the deal, not Theo