A-Roids?

[Red Sox Fan 734]

Crap Canseco was right about almost everyone.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

You suck A-rod

[KowboyKoop]

I guess, thats still an assumption until it's proven though.

I mean Rafael Palmerio "never did steroids. period."....

Well, if they tested him and they came back positive..that seems like proof to me.

[HoustonGM]

I hope this is not your stance on performance-enhancing drugs.

That there's no way to determine exactly what they do for one's baseball performance, and that a great player is going to be a great player steroids or not and steroids won't turn a player into a great player? Yes, that's my stance.

So if other players cheated, that suddenly makes it OK for him to cheat too? And if he indeed cheated, of course it has something to do with A-Rod becoming the great player that he is today. How do you value a player of any sport? You look at their history, what they have done in the past.

Willie Mays, Pud Galvin, Mickey Mantle, Gaylord Perry, assortments of other players from the 1960's and 1970's, etc. all cheated, and nobody cares.

Why wasn't this list used on the Mitchell Report?

Because it was supposed to be anonymous, and the government is still protecting the other names on the list, but A-Rod's leaked. It's ******** in my opinion. An anonymous test in which the names are kept is not an anonymous test.

If I were accused of steroids and I knew I was innocent, that would be the first thing out of my mouth. If he were truly innocent and he just said "go talk to the union," than that is exceedingly dumb. I have to think he did it. There shouldn't be any suspension or anything...it's just another disappointment. When (and IF, a big if...) some of these guys who have potentially abused steroids start dying young or breaking down later in life, don't expect me to feel any sympathy.

I can never figure out the reaction to players associated to steroids. If they admit to it, vaguely or otherwise, they get this reaction. If they don't say anything, they get treated as if they were guilty. If they deny it, they get called liars.

[HoustonGM]

I'm more outraged that this was released to the public than that A-Rod did steroids...partially because I don't get outraged over steroids, and partially because any violation of civil rights outrages me. As poster Colin Wyers said on Baseball Think Factory, "This is a gross violation of several legal and ethical court proceedings that serves no public good, and it's absolutely shameful that this is happening. What if this was your civil rights being violated by some publicity- or money-seeking court employee?"

Leaking from sealed court documents is...um...very illegal. But, of course, there's going to be no investigation into that (nevermind the fact that I think it's reprehensible that players were essentially fooled into thinking that the test results would be...you know..anonymous).

More from Baseball Think Factory:

TJ Quinn, on ESPN, just said that the sample jars had codes on them, and the codes were associated with the players on a sheet that was kept in another state, with the assumption that it'd be very difficult to link the two items together.

All I can say to that is...LOL RLY? Who the hell came up with that brilliant idea?

The government seizure of the records is still being fought by the MLBPA on the Federal level. Basically, the Feds used a search warrant seeking samples on the BALCO guys and helped themselves to everybody else's because they were on the same computer. It's the equivalent of getting legal permission to look at a specific file folder and then just taking the whole damn file cabinet. Someone involved in the case told me that no matter how shameful you may think steroid use is, nobody acted with more disregard for the law than the Feds. I believe him.

That really is what outrages me the most.



And personally, I can't wait for the day that the news come out that some universally loved player took steroids. Think a Derek Jeter, Ken Griffey, Ichiro.... What would the reaction to that be? In a logical world, maybe it'd finally smack some people upside the head with "Hey, most players were doing it. It wasn't only the people we already didn't like. It doesn't make them evil people. Everybody involved with baseball was implicit with the steroid era, from the fans to the media that looked the other way to the players to the front office and commissioner's office that also looked the other way. It was a black mark on the history of baseball but it's time to move on." But, alas, the world is not logical.

[Slingshot]

That there's no way to determine exactly what they do for one's baseball performance, and that a great player is going to be a great player steroids or not and steroids won't turn a player into a great player? Yes, that's my stance.

Some players are using those substances to indeed enhance their performances, hence the name. You're not so naive to think they don't have any effect, do you? And whether the effect of steroids is big or small, they are still cheating, and you look like you're just turning a blind eye to it. In my opinion, players that get caught today should get a minimum ban of one year, with a second offence leading to lifetime ban.

[HoustonGM]

Some players are using those substances to indeed enhance their performances, hence the name. You're not so naive to think they don't have any effect, do you?

Depends on which substance you're talking about.

And whether the effect of steroids is big or small, they are still cheating, and you look like you're just turning a blind eye to it.

Kind of like how the entire baseball world turned a blind eye to it until Congress got involved, and now those same people are getting up on their high horses and acted like their shining beacons of great morality?

In my opinion, players that get caught today should get a minimum ban of one year, with a second offence leading to lifetime ban.

I don't know if I'd agree with such harsh penalties, but I agree that players that get caught NOW absolutely do deserve a punishment...as is the case. I don't believe in punishing the players that did it during a time when baseball had no guidelines for punishment.

[OregonDuck1989]

Houston you hit the nail on the head right there, this is a blatant disregard for civil rights.

[HoustonGM]

Houston you hit the nail on the head right there, this is a blatant disregard for civil rights.

I also find it despicable that everybody is placing ALL of the blame for the steroid issue on the players, while completely absolving the media, managers, general managers, owners, and Commissioner of all responsibility.

[Slingshot]

Depends on which substance you're talking about.


Kind of like how the entire baseball world turned a blind eye to it until Congress got involved, and now those same people are getting up on their high horses and acted like their shining beacons of great morality?


I don't know if I'd agree with such harsh penalties, but I agree that players that get caught NOW absolutely do deserve a punishment...as is the case. I don't believe in punishing the players that did it during a time when baseball had no guidelines for punishment.

1. Baseball players may not the sharpest tools in the shed, but I hardly think some of them would use drugs that would just give them the Placebo effect.

2. I would say the media must take a lot of blame for this. People haven't been given enough information about this, and besides, they couldn't do anything as long as there weren't any punishments for taking drugs.

3. Being a longtime cycling fan, I laugh every time I hear about testing and punishments in American sports. Random, frequent testing and harsh penalties is what must be put into effort. 40-game bans for baseball players and 4-game bans for football players won't scare them away from trying again.

[HoustonGM]

1. Baseball players may not the sharpest tools in the shed, but I hardly think some of them would use drugs that would just give them the Placebo effect.

I was mostly referring to HGH with my comment. All the studies done on that particular drug have shown no effect on baseball performance.

[rogue9]

That there's no way to determine exactly what they do for one's baseball performance, and that a great player is going to be a great player steroids or not and steroids won't turn a player into a great player? Yes, that's my stance.

I am not arguing one way or the other, i just find this statement sort of contradictory. On one hand theres no way to know what they do for a player, but on the other you know it doesn't make a player great?

[HoustonGM]

I am not arguing one way or the other, i just find this statement sort of contradictory. On one hand theres no way to know what they do for a player, but on the other you know it doesn't make a player great?

There's no way to know exactly what effect it has on a player's performance, but it's not going to turn a poor player into a great player...because it is not a magical drug that gives you baseball talent. Baseball isn't a game like football (for certain positions) where the only real requirement is being strong. If you have poor hand-eye coordination, for example, no amount of steroids will make you good at baseball.

[etothep]

i just don't care

[HoustonGM]

From BTF:

I haven't had a chance to read the comments here yet, but my initial thought is that hopefully this will finally make the steroids issue jump the shark. Now that ARod appears, at least for the moment, to be another of this era's superstars "connected to" steroids (and of course we don't have any confirmation that the allegations are actually true), it only serves to highlight the abject silliness of tearing down this era's stars based on behavior -- proven or unproven -- that was completely normal and accepted as part of the culture for decades.

Of course, it might take someone like the sainted Jeter to be linked to steroids before the media decides, ah, this stuff really isn't a big deal.

What he said.

[Jeffy25]

I agree with you houston....you have said everything perfectly