As expected, Henderson and Rice inducted into Hall of Fame

[bucher34]

If there are going to be debates about him than there should be similar debates about Crime Dog and Ventura.

[OregonDuck1989]

Galarraga is one of my old favorites but his numbers won't be enough to get him in. Sigh.

[bucher34]

Yeah great player to watch. Loved him on the Braves.

[KowboyKoop]

If the Hall goes by numbers, he is not close to being in.

I know, that's why I think he's so underrated. Whether or not he gets in, I couldn't really care less...but Edgar Martinez will always be one of the great hitters of the 90s to me......but like I said..I'm so far from a HOF guy it's ridiculous.

[flapper]

http://www.twincities.com/news/ci_11435738?source=rss

[wahoosamC]

If the Hall goes by numbers, he is not close to being in.

More deserving than Rice.

[BINGLEBOP]

What do you (and others) mean by "more deserving"?

[Jeffy25]

Mark Grace had 22 votes almost making the cut. What a fun player to watch even though I dislike the loveable losers.

I agree, I loved Mark Grace, and the type of player he was. Hall of Famer? eh, maybe....and I hate the Cubs. But I loved some of their players, like Grace.

[TheNamelessPoet]

What do you (and others) mean by "more deserving"?

Greg Maddux is more deserving than Tom Glavine... they both may be HOF'ers but Maddux is much moe deserving.. meaning if u only could put 1 in he is not not tome Glavine.

I THINK thats what they mean. Like Griffey vs Sosa... they have relativly similar #'s but Griffey is more deserving of the HOF

[HoustonGM]

What do you (and others) mean by "more deserving"?

Probably something like, if he ranked players, Edgar would rank above Rice, therefore, be "closer" to a Hall of Famer than Rice....I'd agree.

At any rate, when the players of one's youth start coming up on the Hall of Fame ballot, it sure makes you feel old.

[HoustonGM]

On Rice, from OCF at Baseball Think Factory:

An incomplete list of LF and RF since 1960 who were better than Jim Rice
and aren't in the Hall of Fame:

Tim Raines
(large gap)
Dwight Evans
Jack Clark
Frank Howard
Rusty Staub
Reggie Smith
Bobby Bonds
Rocky Colavito
Dave Parker

And I can make cases for:
Ken Singleton
Jose Cruz, Sr.
Jose Canseco
Albert Belle
Daryl Strawberry

I agree/disagree on some of them, and I'd also say that most of these players (save Raines) are all bunched up incredibly close to each other, and full on the outside of the HoF in my opinion.

[HoustonGM]

More from BTF on next year's candidates from Aspiring One-Armed Economist (6 - 4 - 3):

Alomar: won't get 75%, but possibly >50%
Appier: won't get 5%
Ashby: won't get 5%
Burks: won't get 5%
Burba: won't get 5%
Galarraga: might get >5%, will never be elected
Hentgen: won't get 5%
Jackson: won't get 5%
Karros: won't get 5%
Lankford: won't get 5%
Larkin: won't get 75%, but possibly >50%
Martinez: will get somewhere between 20-50%
McGriff: will get somewhere between 10-30%
McLemore: won't get 5%
Reynolds: won't get 5%
Segui: won't get 5%
Ventura: might get >5%, will never be elected
Vina: won't get 5%
Zeile: won't get 5%

Those predictions look about right.

[kenny1234]

Alomar and Larkin - I think so. Other than that - I haven't decided what I think about Edgar but I would probably vote yes. None of the others really come close for me.

[HoustonGM]

Rob Neyer on Tim Raines/Andre Dawson:

Of course, Andre Dawson might soon join that list, as he inched up again this year, to 67 percent. Meanwhile, his old teammate Tim Raines is stuck at 22 percent, which quite frankly might be the single most embarrassing number in the history of Hall of Fame voting.

You might have read somewhere that Raines reached base more times in his career than Tony Gwynn, and that's true: 3,977 times for Raines, 3,955 for Gwynn. Did you know Raines reached base 503 more times than Dawson? That Raines is 41st on the all-time list and Dawson is 96th?

You might have read somewhere that Dawson finished his career with a .323 on-base percentage -- exceptionally low for a 1980s outfielder/Hall of Fame candidate -- and that's true, too. Did you know Dawson's .482 career slugging percentage isn't anything special, either? Did you know Dawson's 119 career OPS-plus (OPS adjusted for league and home field) is worse than Raines' 123? Did you know on-base percentage should be weighted more heavily than slugging percentage? Did you know that for all the talk about Dawson's impressive combination of power and speed, Raines stole nearly 500 more bases?

I don't mean to pick on Dawson, but I find his and Raines' careers oddly linked, and not for the reason you might guess. Yes, they were teammates in Montreal for a number of years. But I wonder whether there has been a player whose Hall of Fame candidacy has been more affected by collusion than the candidacies of these two. In 1987, both Dawson and Raines were free agents. Neither received an offer commensurate with his talents. Dawson chose to play for the Cubs, for practically nothing, and wound up hitting 47 home runs and winning his only MVP award (not that he deserved it). Raines chose to wait and wound up having to sit out the first month of the season before re-signing with the Expos. It would be one of his best seasons -- he still managed to lead the National League with 123 runs -- but it would have been better if he'd been able to play in April.

Without collusion, Dawson probably isn't a future Hall of Famer. Without collusion, Raines might have picked up that MVP award Dawson got, in which case his Hall of Fame candidacy would look a lot better than it does.
For Raines, all hope should not be lost. In Rice's first year of eligibility for the Hall, he received just 30 percent of the vote. And the great thing about Raines' candidacy is that nobody has to make up a bunch of stuff.

Raines very well may have made the HoF first ballot if it wasn't for labor relations. Raines was a full-time player through three strike years - 1981, 1994, and 1995. He was also a victim of collusion in 1987.

Let's extend those years out to 162 game seasons. Raines played 82% of his team's games in 1981. In a full season, that'd be 133 games. Extending his season out to 133 games, he'd have had 107 steals, 92 runs and 144 hits.

In 1994, he played 89% of games, or 144 in a full season. Extend that season, and you get 18 steals, 114 runs and 145 hits.

In 1995, 92% of games, or 149 in a full season. 15 steals, 160 hits, 91 runs.

In 1987, he missed 21 games because of collusion. He played 98.5% of the Expos games the rest of the way. Had he played 20 more games that year, he'd have had 200 hits, 140 runs and 57 steals.

Revised career totals would be 1,663 runs, 2,739 hits, 855 steals...Some prettier numbers there.

[metsguy234]

I'm satisfied with who got in, although I wish a couple of others had as well. I'm still surprised that 28 people can say with a straight face "I do not believe that Rickey Henderson is a Hall of Famer"

I'm also shocked that 2 people voted for Jay Bell, and 1 person for Jesse Orosco

For next year, I'd go with Dawson, Blyleven, Alomar, Smith, Larkin, Raines, Trammell, Edgar Martinez, McGriff, and Ventura