Are there more current/unelected HOF'ers

[metsguy234]

Also, metsguy, one other question. How in the world do you vote for Omar Vizquel, but not think Ozzie Smith belongs?

Because I don't believe a player should get in for just his defense.

[HoustonGM]

And Trammell was a great fielder, and above average everywhere else. Jeter, again, is not good at anything really.

Uh, he's very good at hitting?

You may not think so because, as I said, he's not ridiculously great at any one aspect of hitting but rather above average at every aspect of hitting, but put that all together, and he's a very good hitter (particularly once you account for his position).

Because I don't believe a player should get in for just his defense.

But you think Omar Vizquel should get in....what else does Omar Vizquel have besides his defense? Omar Vizquel was worse at defense than Ozzie Smith AND worse at hitting AND worse at baserunning. Ozzie Smith was Omar Vizquel except better at everything by a substantial amount.

You're confusing me more and more.

[metsguy234]

But you think Omar Vizquel should get in....what else does Omar Vizquel have besides his defense? Omar Vizquel was worse at defense than Ozzie Smith AND worse at hitting AND worse at baserunning. Ozzie Smith was Omar Vizquel except better at everything by a substantial amount.

You're confusing me more and more.

Whoops... you're right, I thought Vizquel had much more HR and a much less unsightly career batting average. I'll take him off my ballot then.

[HoustonGM]

This is, once again, why I suggest you look things up before saying things.

Wanna look up Ivan Rodriguez (and Derek Jeter) and change your mind on them too?

[wahoosamC]

Which is......REALLY 'EFFIN GOOD!

And you've also previously claimed that you'd vote for a nearly identical player , Alan Trammell.


Like Omar Vizquel, right? You know, the guy that was good at one thing and sucked at everything else?



You're severely undervaluing the value in being very good everywhere and not having a weakness. It's why Carlos Beltran is such a great player, and also why he is so underrated, because, like you, people underrate players that aren't amazing anywhere, but have no weaknesses. As I said, I just thought that was a matter of circumstance and never saw anybody actually spell it out like you have.

Agree about Beltran, probably the best CFer in baseball currently.

[metsguy234]

Agree about Beltran, probably the best CFer in baseball currently.

Don't get carried away there, buddy...

[wahoosamC]

Don't get carried away there, buddy...

Only real one with an argument is Sizemore.

[eggson27]

Don't get carried away there, buddy...

I agree with wahoosam--Beltran is fantastic. I can't think of a better current center fielder right now.

[HoustonGM]

Sizemore/Beltran are really 1a and 1b in some order. Personally, I honestly can't distinguish them, but they're clearly the top 2. It's not getting carried away in the least bit to say Beltran is the best CFer in baseball today.

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

Sizemore/Beltran are really 1a and 1b in some order. Personally, I honestly can't distinguish them, but they're clearly the top 2. It's not getting carried away in the least bit to say Beltran is the best CFer in baseball today.

I agree. Although I do think one or both of the Upton brothers are getting prepared to put themselves in the conversation.

[wahoosamC]

I agree. Although I do think one or both of the Upton brothers are getting prepared to put themselves in the conversation.

Justin plays RF doesn't he?

[HoustonGM]

Justin plays RF doesn't he?

Yeah, he does.

[reflections]

Houston this is the greatest burn i've read in a long time

"Ozzie Smith was Omar Vizquel except better at everything by a substantial amount."

[200tang]

On the Derek Jeter question, if he continued playing a little longer I Would vote him in, but at the moment I'll have to say no :-\

I think Jeter is a great player, but his offense (even at SS) just doesn't put him over his defense enough for me to consider him one of the greatest and be hall worthy. Definitely on the bubble, but I wouldn't put him in yet.

[HoustonGM]

Jeter's not close to being done. I'll also say he's a mortal lock to go in on the first ballot regardless of whether or not you think he belongs, and regardless of when he retires from this point on. He's got 9 All Star Games, the RoTY, 3 Gold Gloves, 3 Silver Sluggers, 4 World Series rings, the whole "mystique", tons of postseason play, the special moments, etc. He's the writer's perfect candidate.

I'd also like to point out that according to Baseball-Reference, his top 4 comps, in order, are Barry Larkin, Alan Trammell, Ryne Sandberg, and Roberto Alomar.