And Rickey won't be getting 100%...

[justanewguy]

Rickey 5-tool?
Only thing he wasn't great at, was defense and I think that was more of the showboat in him. Those great swipe catches he would do.

Rickey was a rangey, gutsy defender in the early 80s with a strong arm. That qualifies as 5-tool. He was never as good in the field as Bonds was, but he was better than average for a long while.

Criticizing Rickey's defense in this context would be like criticizing his power. It wasn't the best out there, it wasn't always part of his game, but it was strong.

[acetoolguy]

he should be in just for these....http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=160837

[BINGLEBOP]

Wow... This guy deserves death at a stake.

Not quite.

[RedsoxRockies]

Not quite.

Really? Maybe just the guillotine, it is more humane.

[reflections]

Rickey was a rangey, gutsy defender in the early 80s with a strong arm. That qualifies as 5-tool. He was never as good in the field as Bonds was, but he was better than average for a long while.

Criticizing Rickey's defense in this context would be like criticizing his power. It wasn't the best out there, it wasn't always part of his game, but it was strong.

? rangey? gutsy?
First
Rickey is in my top 5 baseball players of all time, so if you think I was criticizing him. You seriously mistook what I said.
Second, i basically tried to say, defense was never too important to him. He did have a great 1980 season in the field and continued to be great till 1984 when he committed 11 errors in 140 games. His arm was never something people were afraid of, and although he did have good rangem but a true 5 tool player should in theory have a gun for a arm. Well Rickey knows Rickey didn't stretch out for every ball (of course I remember a few great stretch catches Rickey made when he was a Yank).
But a 5 tool players I suppose doesn't really have to display the 5 tools for an entire career, I mean Ruben Rivera and the immortal Billy Beane, all so called 5 tool players.

[reflections]

he should be in just for these....http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=160837

Classic.
I miss Rickey.
Only Clinton Portis comes near those quotes, but Portis is trying. Rickey was just being Rickey.

[justanewguy]

? rangey? gutsy?
First
Rickey is in my top 5 baseball players of all time, so if you think I was criticizing him. You seriously mistook what I said.
Second, i basically tried to say, defense was never too important to him. He did have a great 1980 season in the field and continued to be great till 1984 when he committed 11 errors in 140 games. His arm was never something people were afraid of, and although he did have good rangem but a true 5 tool player should in theory have a gun for a arm. Well Rickey knows Rickey didn't stretch out for every ball (of course I remember a few great stretch catches Rickey made when he was a Yank).
But a 5 tool players I suppose doesn't really have to display the 5 tools for an entire career, I mean Ruben Rivera and the immortal Billy Beane, all so called 5 tool players.

A 5-tool player doesn't necessarily have to be *the best* or *among the best* with all tools, and you're right that a 5-tool player shouldn't be expected to do it for an entire career. That's unrealistic, and if you put it to that, only Willie Mays was ever a true 5-tool guy.

Rickey made plenty of catches laying out for the ball, especially in Oakland (the first time around). His GG season ('81) must have had enough of those to get him the award. His arm was above average, and if you want to point out defense stats, you should not overlook his 17 outfield assists in 1980. Not to mention he had 7 to 10 in almost every season, which definitely isn't a dead arm in left. His career range factor is well above league average, and in most years he was FAR ahead.

I don't think I mistook anything, I'm simply arguing that Rickey *is* a 5-tool player, where his arm was probably his weakest asset, but it was still there. If he isn't 5-tool, I don't know who is. Except, again, Mays.

[HoustonGM]

Rickey is definitely in a class by himself. The best leadoff hitter ever, bar-none, and probably one of the top 3-4 offensive forces ever.

That latter statement is a bit of an exaggeration.

[ragecage]

Ricky with the exception of Ty Cobb is the best Leadoff Man ever. Throw all the numbers you want, it wont change my mind, and I dont care if you call me retarded.

[HoustonGM]

Ricky with the exception of Ty Cobb is the best Leadoff Man ever. Throw all the numbers you want, it wont change my mind, and I dont care if you call me retarded.

I don't know why you would think anybody would call you retarded, or throw any numbers at you.

Was Ty Cobb even a leadoff hitter? I don't know. I've actually never heard anything about where he batted in the order, but I have always heard Rickey referred to as the greatest leadoff man ever (which is absolutely true, excepting Cobb if he was indeed a leadoff hitter).

[ragecage]

I don't know why you would think anybody would call you retarded, or throw any numbers at you.

Was Ty Cobb even a leadoff hitter? I don't know. I've actually never heard anything about where he batted in the order, but I have always heard Rickey referred to as the greatest leadoff man ever (which is absolutely true, excepting Cobb if he was indeed a leadoff hitter).

I think it was in that Burns documentary where Cobb refused to bat in the middle of the order, always leadoff. If my memory serves me correct.

[Swampdog]

For several years early in his career, Cobb batted 4'th, and also 3'rd. In the 3 world series he played in he hit in the 3 or 4 spot in the batting order. I think he moved up in the batting order in later years.

[EMDarrow]

Cobb was actually a slugger by the standards of his era, but then there really wasn't much that separated a good leadoff type from a good run-producer at the time.

[JeepGuy63]

lol I always forget aobut his leadoff HR... isnt it like 80+... i mean the guy is INSANE!!!

And the key here is insane ... Rickey was/is insane. Talking in third person about himself and swinging a bat in front of a mirror while totally naked in the clubhouse says it all.

Agreed, this voter needs to be strung from the highest tree in the land for leaving off Henderson and voting for Raines.

[Swampdog]

And the key here is insane ... Rickey was/is insane. Talking in third person about himself and swinging a bat in front of a mirror while totally naked in the clubhouse says it all.

Agreed, this voter needs to be strung from the highest tree in the land for leaving off Henderson and voting for Raines.

That is such nonsense.