But never CY Young or MVPOriginally Posted by HoustonGM
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But never CY Young or MVP
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It was a joke, because metsguy has said that he'd vote for Orosco for the Hall of Fame.
One note on Joe Morgan - he joins Barry Bonds as the only player to win 4 consecutive MVP awards (and Bonds did it TWICE!).
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i really don't have time to scour this whole thread, but tell me metsguy didn't say Orosco is a HOF'er????
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He did a few months ago, so it would be hard to find.
Economic Left/Right: -7.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.72
Matt Wieters says:"My morning routine goes: wake up, bang 10 hot women, eat Lucky Charms, destroy a few countries, and then read YeahThisIsMyBlog.blogspot.com."
Mogul No No's and Perfect Games:
2008 Royals-Gil Meche No hitter in 10 innings 1-0 final score
2038 Padres-Matthew Graham Perfect Game 1-0 victory!
o
Him and asianinvasion voted for him in this poll. I can't find the post where metsguy listed Orosco's name as a Hall of Famer, though.
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1972:
AL MVP: Dick Allen
NL MVP: Steve Carlton
AL Cy: Gaylord Perry
NL Cy: Steve Carlton
The only disagreement here came with the NL MVP. There was a handful of overqualified candidates for the award - Cesar Cedeno, Billy Williams, Willie Stargell, the BBWAA winner Johnny Bench, and my second-place finisher...the great Joe Morgan. However, Steve Carlton had one of the greatest pitching seasons in memory. Going 27-10 on a team that won just 59 games is absurd. He went the distance in 30 of his 41 starts, trouncing the rest of the league's pitchers in complete games (Bob Gibson and Fergie Jenkins were tied for second with 23). He posted a 182 ERA+ and a sub-1 WHIP. Truly a season of epic proportions. The Cy Young is Carlton's 4th HGM Cy, joining the elite company of greats Randy Johnson, Greg Maddux, Roger Clemens, and Pedro Martinez.
o
1971:
AL MVP: Vida Blue
NL MVP: Joe Torre
AL Cy: Vida Blue
NL Cy: Tom Seaver
The lone disagreement here came with the NL Cy Young. Seaver placed second in the BBWAA voting to Fergie Jenkins, despite an ERA a full run lower. Seaver trailed Jenkins by about 40 innings, but the edge in quality was gigantic. I also gave strong consideration to Wilbur Wood for the AL Cy (and thus, the AL MVP), but Wood gave up 24 unearned runs, a huge amount, leading to a significant advantage for Vida Blue.
o
1970:
AL MVP: Carl Yastrzemski
NL MVP: Johnny Bench
AL Cy: Sam McDowell
NL Cy: Tom Seaver
The only agreement here was on the NL MVP, although I had a tough choice between the young Johnny Bench and slugger Willie McCovey. I decided to go with the catcher, though. In the AL, it was a close call between Carl Yastrzemski and the BBWAA winner Boog Powell. Powell was a better defender at first base, but Yaz trumps him offensively by a solid enough margin to make the call easy enough for me.
The AL Cy Young was hotly contested by the BBWAA, with 7 different pitchers receiving a first place vote, and 4 pitchers within 44-55 total points. My choice, Sam McDowell, placed 3rd, behind Jim Perry and Dave McNally. It really was an incredibly close race. McDowell, though, led the group in both innings and ERA+ (tied with Jim Palmer for the latter), while striking out 304 batters. It really could go to any of a number of pitchers, but I'm making the call in favor of McDowell.
In the NL, the BBWAA Cy Young went to Bob Gibson. Tom Seaver, however, despite a worse Won-Loss record pitched basically the same number of innings, but beat Gibson out in quality by a solid margin. Seaver, due to his 18-12 record, barely received any support amongst the BBWAA voters, finishing 7th in the balloting, and I do see it as very, very close between him and Gibson. A tough call, but Seaver it is.
o
1969:
AL MVP: Reggie Jackson
NL MVP: Willie McCovey
AL Cy: Denny McLain
NL Cy: Bob Gibson
Reggie Jackson and Harmon Killebrew, the BBWAA AL MVP, both had great seasons, but I think Jackson's was just slightly better. He beat Killebrew in OPS+ and Batting Runs, while also providing better defense (albeit in the outfield instead of third base) and baserunning. Close, but it goes to Jackson. This was Jackson's best season of his career, in my opinion. The NL MVP was an easy choice, as McCovey just demolished the ball, but the BBWAA voting was real close between him and Tom Seaver, indicating that even as far back as 1969, the BBWAA loved a good story over actual value!
The AL Cy Young from the BBWAA was a tie between Denny McLain and Mike Cueller, so I'll call this one an agreement. While Bob Gibson lost his 1970 award to Tom Seaver in my picks, he steals 1969 away from Seaver. It was awfully close, as in 1970, but Gibson posted basically the same ERA+ while tossing more innings. Seaver has the "Miracle Mets" story line, but not the quantity.
o
1968:
AL MVP: Carl Yastrzemski
NL MVP: Bob Gibson
AL Cy: Denny McLain
NL Cy: Bob Gibson
The Year of the Pitcher. The two Cy Young winners were also given the MVP by the BBWAA, but I don't think McLain's season, 31 wins or not, was noteworthy enough to take the MVP over a position player. Carl Yastrzemski posted a .921 OPS, good for a 170 OPS+ in the offense-starved 1968, while playing fabulous defense in left field. He placed a lowly 9th in the BBWAA voting, but grabs the HGM MVP, his second.
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It is debatable, but Carltons 1972 Season is probably the best pitching performance ever.
o
1967:
AL MVP: Carl Yastrzemski
NL MVP: Roberto Clemente
AL Cy: Joe Horlen
NL Cy: Jim Bunning
The only agreement here came with Carl Yastrzemski. In the NL, Orlando Cepeda was given the MVP by the BBWAA. He had a great season, but I have Hank Aaron, Ron Santo, and Roberto Clemente above him. Clemente combined a 171 OPS+ with excellent defense and a canon for an arm, earning him the HGM MVP.
The BBWAA AL Cy Young went to Jim Lonberg. Joe Horlen, however, had a 1 run advantage in ERA, and also posted a better ERA+. The advantage in quality beats out Lonberg's 15 inning advantage.
The BBWAA gave the NL Cy Young to Mike McCormick. Jim Bunning, though, tossed 40 more innings with a better ERA+. He went just 17-15, though, preventing him from taking home the award while McCormick went 22-10.
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I think when you adjust for era Pedro in '99 and '00 are better, but as you said, it's debatable.
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1966:
AL MVP: Frank Robinson
NL MVP: Sandy Koufax
AL Cy: Jim Kaat
NL Cy: Sandy Koufax
MLB Cy: Sandy Koufax
1967 marked the first year that the BBWAA awarded a separate Cy Young award to each league, so for the next 10 years, back to the first year that the Cy Young was given out (1956), I will list my picks for both leagues, and then my pick for the MLB Cy Young, and it is that pick that I will use to compare my choices to the BBWAA choices.
Moving on, the disagreement here came with the NL MVP. Sandy Koufax placed a very close second to Roberto Clemente in the BBWAA voting, and even beat him out by one first place vote. I've gotta give it to Koufax. However, my second place pick, who I nearly gave the award to, goes to Ron Santo, another under-appreciated player in the mold of Bobby Grich from the 1970's. Santo played superb defense at third base, while posting an OPS+ over 160. Truly amazing season, but had the bad luck of having it when Sandy Koufax put up his best (and last) season.
I awarded the AL Cy Young to Jim Kaat. The AL was weird that year, in there was really a lack of pitchers that combined both excellent quality with quantity. Kaat led the league with 304.2 innings, a full 40 innings over the next best. He had a 131 ERA+, giving him the HGM Cy.
o
1965:
AL MVP: Zoilo Versalles
NL MVP: Willie Mays
AL Cy: Sam McDowell
NL Cy: Sandy Koufax
MLB Cy: Sandy Koufax
No disagreements with the BBWAA here. Zoilo Versalles is often mentioned when discussing the "worst players to ever win an MVP", and while that may be a deserved title since he fell off sharply after his MVP season, his MVP was deserved. There was a distinct lack of top level talent in the American League in 1965, and Versalles led the league in VORP and WARP, combining excellent offense for a shortstop with excellent defense. For the AL Cy Young, I awarded it to Sam McDowell, who led the league in ERA+ and placed 2nd in innings.
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