Braves giving up to much?

[dickay]

how is it so many sources jumped the gun so early with wrong information?

[TheNamelessPoet]

For who?

for the braves. giving up way to much for an unproven pithcer. yea he stays healthy but another 4+era is not hwat we need... we need an ace... and a #2 guy... Vazquez would be a nice #3 or very good #4 but is FAR from the frontline starter we need

[HoustonGM]

for the braves. giving up way to much for an unproven pithcer. yea he stays healthy but another 4+era is not hwat we need... we need an ace... and a #2 guy... Vazquez would be a nice #3 or very good #4 but is FAR from the frontline starter we need

Vazquez is "unproven"?

He's the very definition of "proven." He'll give you 200+ innings of at least league-average pitching.

[TheNamelessPoet]

Vazquez is "unproven"?

He's the very definition of "proven." He'll give you 200+ innings of at least league-average pitching.

as stated clearly above... we dont NEED leagee average... we dont need just an inning eater we need a front like ace... for 23 million over the next 2 years he is not worth it. we already have our #3 in Jair... so you put vazquez ahead of Jair... not a chance... now of the 40-45 million they have told Wren he can spend... 25% is spend on a #3 starter AT BEST. not to mention you are trading lillenbridge AND another good prospect in the Catcher. I do NOT think its a good trade... Peavy will be back out there for the Braves to nab and they will have to pull an OMAR "Ill empty the farm" trade.

I do NOT like it.

Proven does not mean he will pitch 200 inning... i could do it too (albiet to a 100.01 era lol) innings doesnt mean proven it mean durrability which we DO need but not in a 4+ ERA guy

[TheNamelessPoet]

Peavy is proven
Webb is proven
Zambrano is Proven
Santana is Proven

Vazquez has proven he wont get hut... thats it

[HoustonGM]

as stated clearly above... we dont NEED leagee average... we dont need just an inning eater we need a front like ace... for 23 million over the next 2 years he is not worth it. we already have our #3 in Jair... so you put vazquez ahead of Jair... not a chance... now of the 40-45 million they have told Wren he can spend... 25% is spend on a #3 starter AT BEST. not to mention you are trading lillenbridge AND another good prospect in the Catcher. I do NOT think its a good trade... Peavy will be back out there for the Braves to nab and they will have to pull an OMAR "Ill empty the farm" trade.

I do NOT like it.

If this is the only move the Braves make, than sure, it's not that good. But, I think it's just one of many and should be evaluated in that context. They needed some durability and stability in their rotation, and Vazquez provides that.

Proven does not mean he will pitch 200 inning... i could do it too (albiet to a 100.01 era lol) innings doesnt mean proven it mean durrability which we DO need but not in a 4+ ERA guy

Peavy is proven
Webb is proven
Zambrano is Proven
Santana is Proven

Vazquez has proven he wont get hut... thats it

I guess I'm not following you on what you mean by "proven." To me, "proven" means you know what you're going to get.

[dickay]

Peavy is proven
Webb is proven
Zambrano is Proven
Santana is Proven

Vazquez has proven he wont get hut... thats it

I don't know much about what they gave up, but I'm speculating it wasn't a 'ton' of top level prospects. I think Vazquez has been great at time but inconsistent and to me it's worth a relatively small gamble to add him as I believe they are speculating the National League and less of a pressure market will help his numbers. It's a speculation, but I think after the season you will be pleasantly surprised and satisfied with his output.

[HoustonGM]

I don't know much about what they gave up, but I'm speculating it wasn't a 'ton' of top level prospects.

Flowers was the best prospect in the deal. A catcher with a huge bat but questions about whether he'll stick behind the plate. I don't know much about Jon Gilmore and the pitcher. Lillibridge used to be a top prospect but his stock has fallen sharply. Very sharply.

It's a speculation, but I think after the season you will be pleasantly surprised and satisfied with his output.

Agreed.

[TheNamelessPoet]

i sure as hell hope so

[TheNamelessPoet]

and now we are about to give 5 years to burnett... watch it be about 17 million a year... i swear ill be soooo pissed if he does that... then what... burnett is our ace with vazquez out #2??? well mail in 09 and 10 my friends

[HoustonGM]

and now we are about to give 5 years to burnett... watch it be about 17 million a year... i swear ill be soooo pissed if he does that... then what... burnett is our ace with vazquez out #2??? well mail in 09 and 10 my friends

Burnett-Vazquez-Jurrjens is one of the stronger 1-2-3's in the league...

[TheNamelessPoet]

 Year Ag Tm  Lg  W   L   G   GS  CG SHO  GF SV   IP     H    R   ER   HR  BB   SO  HBP  WP  BFP  IBB  BK  ERA *lgERA *ERA+ WHIP
 2003 26 fla nl   0   2   4   4   0   0   0  0   23.0   18   13   12   2   18   21   2   2   106   2   0  4.70  4.20   89 1.565
 2004 27 fla nl   7   6  20  19   1   0   0  0  120.0  102   50   49   9   38  113   4   7   490   0   0  3.68  4.10  112 1.167
 2005 28 fla nl  12  12  32  32   4   2   0  0  209.0  184   97   80  12   79  198   7  12   873   1   0  3.44  3.98  115 1.258
 2006 29 tor al  10   8  21  21   2   1   0  0  135.7  138   67   60  14   39  118   8   6   577   3   1  3.98  4.56  115 1.305
 2007 30 tor al  10   8  25  25   2   0   0  0  165.7  131   74   69  23   66  176  12   5   691   2   0  3.75  4.47  119 1.189
 2008 31 tor al  18  10  35  34   1   0   1  0  221.3  211  109  100  19   86  231   9  11   957   2   2  4.07  4.27  105 1.342

so because he pitched iver 166 innings in 2 of the last 6 seasons and has won 13+ games 1 time im supposed to be thrilled... anyone remeber mat clament for the sox or pavano for the yanks... this is a GREAT deal right guys!!! I mean if we are talking 5 years 45 million (OBVIOUSLY we are not) I take it but come on... what are we gonna give him 5 years 75-85 million???

[HoustonGM]

Burnett is very different from Pavano and Clement. Yes, injuries are a concern, but the reward with Burnett is much greater than those guys.

I'm just saying, Burnett-Vazquez-Jurrjens is a very formidable top half of the rotation. The Braves have money to spend, who would you rather them spend it on than Burnett?

[dickay]

 Year Ag Tm  Lg  W   L   G   GS  CG SHO  GF SV   IP     H    R   ER   HR  BB   SO  HBP  WP  BFP  IBB  BK  ERA *lgERA *ERA+ WHIP
 2003 26 fla nl   0   2   4   4   0   0   0  0   23.0   18   13   12   2   18   21   2   2   106   2   0  4.70  4.20   89 1.565
 2004 27 fla nl   7   6  20  19   1   0   0  0  120.0  102   50   49   9   38  113   4   7   490   0   0  3.68  4.10  112 1.167
 2005 28 fla nl  12  12  32  32   4   2   0  0  209.0  184   97   80  12   79  198   7  12   873   1   0  3.44  3.98  115 1.258
 2006 29 tor al  10   8  21  21   2   1   0  0  135.7  138   67   60  14   39  118   8   6   577   3   1  3.98  4.56  115 1.305
 2007 30 tor al  10   8  25  25   2   0   0  0  165.7  131   74   69  23   66  176  12   5   691   2   0  3.75  4.47  119 1.189
 2008 31 tor al  18  10  35  34   1   0   1  0  221.3  211  109  100  19   86  231   9  11   957   2   2  4.07  4.27  105 1.342

so because he pitched iver 166 innings in 2 of the last 6 seasons and has won 13+ games 1 time im supposed to be thrilled... anyone remeber mat clament for the sox or pavano for the yanks... this is a GREAT deal right guys!!! I mean if we are talking 5 years 45 million (OBVIOUSLY we are not) I take it but come on... what are we gonna give him 5 years 75-85 million???

although I like the Vazquez deal, I can certainly sympathize with any fans apprehension with Burnett. He's a superb talent, but the injury risk is great and as you said its sure to be a big contract. Five years seems excessive with his history. I'd be scared too.

[dickay]

Burnett is very different from Pavano and Clement. Yes, injuries are a concern, but the reward with Burnett is much greater than those guys.

I'm just saying, Burnett-Vazquez-Jurrjens is a very formidable top half of the rotation. The Braves have money to spend, who would you rather them spend it on than Burnett?

Sometimes its better to leave the money in the bank and live with the little interest then to use excess cash to buy a risky stock that can hurt your portfolio long term.