Originally Posted by etothep
Agreed, but, holding different people to different standards for the same offenses, is BY DEFINITION, hypocrisy.
I hear the reasons WHY, but it's still hypocrisy.
Certifiable
Agreed, but, holding different people to different standards for the same offenses, is BY DEFINITION, hypocrisy.
I hear the reasons WHY, but it's still hypocrisy.
I Rustle Your Jimmies!
Stealing a candy bar & stealing a car are essentially the same offenses, but we hold the car thief to a different standard. Social hypocrisy?
Certifiable
You can do better than that. That's two different offenses (petty larceny vs grand theft larceny/auto) with two different sentences. Certainly you can do better than that.
Plus, I'm not talking about punishment. Bonds wasn't punished at all (at least officially) while the football players are. I'm talking about the fans reactions. And it is hypocritical. Period.
Dreamweaver
I don't know about Palmerio (sp?) or McGwire, but Bonds and Clemens are mortal locks for the HOF. Maybe not 1st ballot..but they will get in. They were so great before the controversy.......they'll be in. Now....whether or not something is written on their plaque about all this...that's debatable.
I Rustle Your Jimmies!
Wait. So the guys who are punished aren't hated on as much as the guys who aren't punished. And this bothers you? Isn't that how it is in all walks of life? That you don't like the ones who get away with it, regardless of the offense
Registered User
The outrage died out 20 years ago when the NFL first started trying to stop it. AT first there was outrage at guys that were doing it, but that was 20 years ago, people learn to live with it.
You know, now when MLB players test positive no one really, cares that much, there isn't any outrage anymore, they were outraged at the first wave of players. The ones who stood up and told the fans "how dare you accuse ME of cheating", the guys who who refused to admit it and want nothing more than to duck any responsibilty. And even then ot wasn't the use people were outraged at it was the denial ..
...Even the players who came out and admitted it are getting a pass ... when was the last time Giambi's name was mentioned ??
NFL players take thier punishment and then move on, just like MLB players are now doing . . .
Certifiable
LOL, you can keep trying to make it about punishment all you want, but do I really have to name all the other guys who weren't punished but garnered little reaction? Mmm, let's see. Was Miguel Tejada or Jason Giambi ever punished? Not to my knowledge. Yet Tejada's name is rarely mentioned (and Giambi's is probably because he's a Yankee but not nearly as much as Bonds/Clemens/McGwire).
Me, personally, I just find the whole thing hypocritical. We tell an athlete it's ok to take certain drugs that boost performance but its not ok for others. We hate on some that "break the rules" and not others. That's all hypocrisy. By definition, hypocrisy. Besides which, has there still been any evidence proving Bonds broke any MLB rule at the time? Or have we now (as I suspect) moved on to a "guilty until proven innocent" country.
I Rustle Your Jimmies!
Giambi admitted to it. Before he did, he was getting as much attention as any other roids guy. Afterwards, his name got all but dropped from the conversation. You keep asking why fans are reacting differently, & I keep giving you the reasons for it (from the ones who are punished are viewed as some as "having served their time" to others who are caught not even being noticeable enough ball players to garner a reaction). Now if you disagree with the reasons, thats fine, but I've given you the most common reasons for why the fans react differently. Take it for what its worth.
As for the were they breaking rules at the time or not discussion. Taking steroids & some of these other performance enhancers w/o prescriptions is illegal, period. As for something like the supplement (some form of Andro I think it was) McGwire was found to be taking, I have no issue with that, but if it was against the rules in bball at the time, he should've been punished (I think it wasn't at the time, but led to a rule change on the supplement)
Certifiable
Actually, I'm not disagreeing with your reasons. IN fact, I agree your reasons help to explain it. I stated above, I hear WHY it's happening. Kenny made good cases for WHY it's happening too. I understand why it's happening.
But the why doesn't take away from it still being hypocritical. That was my only point. There can be hundreds of reasons why people are hypocritical, but they are still hypocrits. I'm guilty of it too, but I don't like it and try to catch myself. That's all I was saying. The outrage over some and indifference to others is just somehow wrong IMO, no matter what the reasons are behind the difference in treatment. And, Mike Golic used the "H" word on the Mike and Mike show today that got me thinking about it in the first place.
Master of Ale!
I quite agree with your main point, OFG. I am a big football fan, and it was rather sickening to me listening to announcers hail the return of Merriman from his roid suspension like he was some conquering hero (especially the idiotic Joe Theismann, who couldn't stop gushing. This after hammering Ricky Williams for being a criminal and an idiot for smoking weed. Yeah, REAL shame Joe got booted from the booth...).
I will point out that, of these 8 football players, so far it seems 3 were caught using roids. The other 5 seem to have been busted using a blend of uppers or ephedra or diuretics. Still illegal in the game, but hardly the same thing.
παραλία
Meh...it's only football
E=I*R
I don't follow football like I do baseball (hell, I hardly follow football at all anymore, since all of the name games and "gangsta" ******** started...), but I do know about LT. Lawrence Tailor was probably the biggest coke head in the New York/New Jersey metro area there for about 5 years. The dude was litterally out of his friggin mind he was high so often.If someone like Brady, LT, Favre, or Manning (not little eli) were to test positive, you'd hear an outrage as they're perenial pro bowlers who have broke records, will all be first ballot HOFers, have chances at holding stats to be considered by some to be "too hard to top for decades" & are some of the best to play.
...yet, you're holding him up here as an example. You're kind of proving OFG primary point with this one statement.
You insist that there is something a machine cannot do. If you will tell me precisely what it is that a machine cannot do, then I can always make a machine which will do just that! -J. von Neumann
Registered User
Its pretty obvious you don't follow football as the initials LT are now the sole proprietary of Ladanian Tomlinson lol. However, I fully agree with your sentiments that Taylor, in his day, was a known drug abuser yet he was beloved as long as he recorded a sack or two on gameday.
E=I*R
lol
You insist that there is something a machine cannot do. If you will tell me precisely what it is that a machine cannot do, then I can always make a machine which will do just that! -J. von Neumann
Registered User
excellent example. I mentioned Merriman earlier because IT SO PISSED ME OFF how this guy did a Marion Jones and emphatically denied it then was caught dead guilty....yet even through that period of suspension he was doing major endorsements and was trumpeted as the great Willis Reed coming back to save the Chargers season upon his return. This guy not only got a break, he somehow IMPROVED his 'persona' for lack of a better word as a result. Absolute hypocricy at its finest.
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