Mike & Mike- Red Sox-Angels

[Reade]

Mike and Mike were talking about the Varitek tag play at third. They are talking about how the Angels got screwed on the botched squeeze play where they tagged Willits out at third base and Varitek dropped the ball after the tag.

When I saw it I thought he was out and after watching the replays I still think he was out.

Does anybody actually know how the rule book or case book says how this should have been ruled? Supposedly there's really not much in the rule book about it according to the guys on Mike & Mike.

[RedsoxRockies]

He was out. The ball was safely secure in the glove when the tag was applied, and only fell out after the tag

[Reade]

He was out.

Thats what I thought too, but there's been several of the so called experts say they think they blew the call and he should have been safe.

[HoustonGM]

He was out. After the game, TBS was talking about how they asked some head umpire or something the official rule, and like RSR said, as long as the ball is safely and securely in the glove when the tag is applied, the player is out.

[Reade]

safely and securely in the glove when the tag is applied, the player is out.

That's not completely right. What about a collision at the plate, and the ball comes lose when the baserunners arm hits the catchers glove? How about a runner sliding into second and his foot hits the glove and the ball comes out?

I think he was out too, but there's got to be more to the interpretation of the rule than just that.

[HoustonGM]

That's not completely right. What about a collision at the plate, and the ball comes lose when the baserunners arm hits the catchers glove? How about a runner sliding into second and his foot hits the glove and the ball comes out?

I think he was out too, but there's got to be more to the interpretation of the rule than just that.

If the ball is in the glove when the tag is applied, and the player still has control of the ball after the tag, the player's out. If the ball comes out of the glove during the tag, the player's safe.

[OregonDuck1989]

If the ball is in the glove when the tag is applied, and the player still has control of the ball after the tag, the player's out. If the ball comes out of the glove during the tag, the player's safe.

This is the interpretation I have of the rule.

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

If the ball is in the glove when the tag is applied, and the player still has control of the ball after the tag, the player's out. If the ball comes out of the glove during the tag, the player's safe.

Agreed. It wasn't a "baseball play" that caused the ball to come loose, it was an act of clumsiness, therefore he was out.

[Swampdog]

Agree....the runner was out. It's a lot like when the defense attempts a double play, the second baseman catches the shortstops throw, tags second, takes a step, and then drops the ball while he is attempting to remove the ball from his glove. The runner is ruled out in every case.

[HoustonGM]

Agree....the runner was out. It's a lot like when the defense attempts a double play, the second baseman catches the shortstops throw, tags second, takes a step, and then drops the ball while he is attempting to remove the ball from his glove. The runner is ruled out in every case.

Yep. That's the exact example Rob Neyer used in his ESPN chat today.

[acetoolguy]

Besides...the ground can't cause a fumb...ooops.....wrong forum. never mind.

[dickay]

If the ball is in the glove when the tag is applied, and the player still has control of the ball after the tag, the player's out. If the ball comes out of the glove during the tag, the player's safe.

You make it seem likes its so black and white, and seem to refuse to admit baseball has done a poor job here.

I, like many in here, am a Red Sox fan. I agree he was out. But its a VERY FAIR argument to ask how it is different than a play at the plate. If this was a play at the plate, and the ball secure in his glove when making the tag but was plowed through and after his body hit the ground the ball dropped out, is there anyone that can HONESTLY say that they believe that wouldn't have been called safe??? Thats something that happens a handful of times every season, and its commonplace where if the catcher doesn't have possession of the ball AFTER the impact is completely over, the player has ALWAYS been called safe.

I don't know why the rule is any different at 3rd, 2nd, or 1st than it is at home. I think LAA have a very legitimate gripe there despite my opinion that he was in fact out.

Had it happened at home, he'd have been ruled safe and nobody really would have questioned it. Lets be honest here.

[acetoolguy]

I think the difference is that a runner knocking the catcher down and causing the ball to come loose is a baseball play while the catcher falling to the ground, banging his glove on the ground, after the tag, causing the ball to come out, is not a baseball play.

[HoustonGM]

You make it seem likes its so black and white, and seem to refuse to admit baseball has done a poor job here.

Uh, no.

[Reade]

I think the difference is that a runner knocking the catcher down and causing the ball to come loose is a baseball play while the catcher falling to the ground, banging his glove on the ground, after the tag, causing the ball to come out, is not a baseball play

Thats what I was thinking also. Its almost a judgement call on the part of the umpire. What really surprised me was after Scioscia came out of the dugout, that the umps didn't confer with each other just to be sure they all saw the same thing.