Albert Pujols, underappreciated superstar

[boa]

As Muzzy from Leicester said in Rob Neyer's ESPN chat today, "The best player is the most valuable player. The quality of his teammates is irrelevant when discussing a player's value."

Who the hell is Muzzy and why does he matter? There's been entire debates over the meaning of Most Valuable but some internet dude in a online discussion makes the decision? What are his qualifications to decide? Who is this dude?

[HoustonGM]

Who the hell is Muzzy and why does he matter? There's been entire debates over the meaning of Most Valuable but some internet dude in a online discussion makes the decision? What are his qualifications to decide? Who is this dude?

I agree with what he said. I never implied that he has the "final decision" or that he has any qualifications. I have no idea who he is, but I agree 100% with what he said and I think he said in a very good, quick and to-the-point way.

[boa]

I did some researching and found out Pujols does not lead the NL in win shares. Lance Berkman does. Pujols is excellent. But to say he's underrated is boggling.

[OregonDuck1989]

An oxymoron is a figure of speech that combines two contradictory terms...like jumbo shrimp, pretty ugly, etc. I think oxymoron would fit there.

Yeah, I know that one but for a whole sentence what is the term? I'll look it up...

[gRYFYN1]

6: Number of games the Dodgers have played over .500 since Manny arrived.
.500: Dodgers winning percentage before Manny joined the team.
.519: Dodgers winning percentage today.
2: Number of games the Dodgers were out of first place when Manny got there.
2: Number of games they now lead the NL West.

Well they are 8 games over since Casey Blake arrived

they were 2 games below 500 when Blake arrived and are now 6 over.

so obviously Casey Blake should be MVP ....

[HoustonGM]

I did some researching and found out Pujols does not lead the NL in win shares. Lance Berkman does. Pujols is excellent. But to say he's underrated is boggling.

People are finding reasons not to vote for him in the MVP race. THAT is underrating him.

And, they're not mentioning Lance Berkman, who is really the only player close to Pujols.

They're mentioning Carlos Delgado, who is tied for 20th in Win Shares, if that's your stat of choice, and Ryan Howard, who's tied for 31st.

Not quite sure why Win Shares puts Berkman ahead of Pujols. WARP3 has Pujols at 12.8, and Berkman at 11.5. VORP has Pujols at 87.4 and Berkman at 72.6. Chris Dial's OPD has Pujols at 70.1 and Berkman at 54.2.

I'm pretty sure it's because Win Shares accounts for "timing" of hits a lot more than other stats do. Berkman is second in the majors in WPA, behind Manny Ramirez, Pujols is 4th. But WPA/LI has Pujols second behind Ramirez and Berkman 4th.

[justanewguy]

People are finding reasons not to vote for him in the MVP race. THAT is underrating him.

And stupidly ignoring the greatest hitter of this season, not to mention the entire decade. Not to mention possibly the greatest overall hitter since Ted Williams.

And, they're not mentioning Lance Berkman, who is really the only player close to Pujols.

I'm actually starting to get pissed off about this, and I've mentioned it a lot in this forum. It makes absolutely no sense to me that I hear Delgado, Howard, Wright, Manny (even Matt Kemp may be more deserving), Lee (!?), Soriano (!?!?), but I have yet to hear ANYONE suggest Berkman. It's astounding and irritating. Not to mention Reyes, Wright, Beltran and Utley get ignored in favor of Delgado and Howard.

They're mentioning Carlos Delgado, who is tied for 20th in Win Shares, if that's your stat of choice, and Ryan Howard, who's tied for 31st.

I would have guessed they were around 15th, but wow...

Not quite sure why Win Shares puts Berkman ahead of Pujols. WARP3 has Pujols at 12.8, and Berkman at 11.5. VORP has Pujols at 87.4 and Berkman at 72.6. Chris Dial's OPD has Pujols at 70.1 and Berkman at 54.2.

I'm pretty sure it's because Win Shares accounts for "timing" of hits a lot more than other stats do. Berkman is second in the majors in WPA, behind Manny Ramirez, Pujols is 4th. But WPA/LI has Pujols second behind Ramirez and Berkman 4th.

The only stats he's better in are SB, 3B and GIDP (barely)... so I'm confused too. The timing thing makes sense though.

I almost feel more sorry for Lance Berkman than I do for Pujols. At least Pujols is in the conversation, and should be the winner (thanks to votes splitting between all the BS candidates). Berkman is even more ignored than Pujols...

[boa]

I'm pretty sure it's because Win Shares accounts for "timing" of hits a lot more than other stats do. Berkman is second in the majors in WPA, behind Manny Ramirez, Pujols is 4th. But WPA/LI has Pujols second behind Ramirez and Berkman 4th.

I don't know why you put timing in quotes, but yes it does.(Win Shares) - Berkman is ahead of Pujols in batting and fielding shares. Pujols will go down as an all-time great, but I don't see a problem in looking at all the options for MVP. People looking at options doesn't mean we don't undervalue Pujols.

[HoustonGM]

I don't know why you put timing in quotes, but yes it does.(Win Shares) - Berkman is ahead of Pujols in batting and fielding shares. Pujols will go down as an all-time great, but I don't see a problem in looking at all the options for MVP. People looking at options doesn't mean we don't undervalue Pujols.

There's a difference between "looking at options" and using silly logic to say that Pujols isn't the MVP or calling somebody else the MVP that isn't even in the vicinity of the value Pujols provides