Red Sox to retire Pesky's number

[RedsoxRockies]

Out of the active players at or closing in on retirement, Pedro is right up there at the top in terms of HOF worthiness. Doing my best not to forget anyone, I'd rank it something like this:

1. Barry Bonds
2. Greg Maddux
3. Frank Thomas
4. TIE - Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez
6. Ken Griffey Jr.
7. Mike Piazza
8. Tom Glavine
9. Mariano Rivera
10. Jeff Kent
11. Sammy Sosa
12. Ivan Rodriguez
13. Trevor Hoffman
14. Gary Sheffield
15. Jim Thome

Roughly... point is, Pedro is easily one of the most deserving players of this generation (with some incredible players above and around him). Everyone I listed from 1 to 12 is a lock, and only an idiot would deny them.

Kent and Hoffman over Thome? WHy? He has been one of the ERA's greatest. And Manny should be on that list, and if you are including Bonds and Sosa, Clemens should be there

[justanewguy]

Kent and Hoffman over Thome? WHy? He has been one of the ERA's greatest. And Manny should be on that list, and if you are including Bonds and Sosa, Clemens should be there

I knew I'd forgotten someone. Thanks. I'm correcting the list now.

Manny is not nearing retirement age. He's still got 5 years left, at least.

[justanewguy]

I'd say a lock, if you're not considering steroid allegations. We really have no idea how voters are gonna deal with Bonds or Sosa...They might give them both the McGwire treatment.

And while I think Jeff Kent is deserving of the HOF, I wouldn't call him a lock.

I think he's a lock because of what he did at the position. I'd eat my Dodgers cap if he gets denied. I don't even like him, I just can't imagine he gets left out of the HOF with all those gaudy 2B numbers.

My list ignores steroids completely. I think Sosa is more likely to get left off than Bonds is. I could see the writers not voting for Bonds the first time to "send a message," but his "pre-steroids" play was so great that he can't really be ignored.

Ken Griffey Jr. below Pedro is just crazy talk, he should be Numero Uno on that list.

Rivera shouldn't be above any of the guys that he's above (except maybe I-Rod)

Rivera is the greatest closer ever, whether or not you agree with it. Sorry.

Pedro was the greatest pitcher in the majors during his peak. He helped "break the curse." Griffey is very, very close.

Kent and Hoffman over Thome? WHy? He has been one of the ERA's greatest. And Manny should be on that list, and if you are including Bonds and Sosa, Clemens should be there

Because Kent was by FAR the best 2B of his time. Hoffman has the saves record (as much as we say it's not worth something, it can add up to meaning something over time). Besides, Hoffman's numbers are disgustingly good, and he was the second best reliever of his time, suffering from playing at the same time as the greatest EVER (Rivera).

Thome was never really that fantastic compared to his peers... but he racked up some very good career numbers, and was a top-notch player. I'd put every player I listed in the HOF if I could vote.

Keep in mind, there are a TON of excellent players still active that will be getting into the Hall of Fame. Thome being low on THAT list doesn't really speak against him.

[metsguy234]

Rivera is the greatest closer ever, whether or not you agree with it. Sorry.

Pedro was the greatest pitcher in the majors during his peak. He helped "break the curse." Griffey is very, very close.

No, Trevor Hoffman is the greatest closer of all time. But thanks for playing the Who the Hell is the Greatest Closer of all Time? Game!

[RedsoxRockies]

Thome was one of the best hitters of any era really. An extremely good hitter.

[RedsoxRockies]

No, Trevor Hoffman is the greatest closer of all time. But thanks for playing the Who the Hell is the Greatest Closer of all Time? Game!

No, Mariano Rivera is, followed by Hoffman, Followed by Nathan

[metsguy234]

No, Mariano Rivera is, followed by Hoffman, Followed by Nathan

Hoffman has more saves, and Lee Smith is 2nd best, followed by Rivera.

Thanks for playing though!

[RedsoxRockies]

Hoffman has more saves, and Lee Smith is 2nd best, followed by Rivera.

Thanks for playing though!

Saves DO NOT AT ALL MEAN EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Look at OTHER #'s. So, I guess your beloved John Franco did not save 450 games, so he sucks

[HoustonGM]

metsguy234, do you remember when you said this:

You have to look deeper then saves, the current saves rule is flawed.

[YEAH DAAAAWG]

Didn't Rivera just take second place in saves?

[HoustonGM]

Didn't Rivera just take second place in saves?

Yup.

[metsguy234]

Yup.

But Lee Smith had the all-time record for so long. It's just... different.

[HoustonGM]

But Lee Smith had the all-time record for so long. It's just... different.

No. You just don't have an argument. You make up reasoning and change it at whim in order to fit your bias.

[5dodgers5]

Saves is flawed. Case closed. The closer is not even necessarily (or shouldn't necessarily be) the best reliever in the bullpen. Sometimes the setup man has more intense situations to come into than bottom/top of the ninth, bases empty, 3 run lead.

Also, Pesky's number being retired is awesome, I whole heartedly agree with that. I think that Rice's number should be retired as well, and Francona's. Ramirez.... perhaps. Ortiz will have to do more for the Sox before retiring that number.

[metsguy234]

No. You just don't have an argument. You make up reasoning and change it at whim in order to fit your bias.

When did M. Rivera have the record for most career saves? That's right. NEVER!

Thanks for playing though...