The Rays..can they survive?

[acetoolguy]

According to MLB the Tampa Bay Rays have sold 51% of the available home seats this year. I watched last nights great game and saw empty seats behind home plate. They have been in first since the All Star game. What are the people in the area waiting for? Even playing as well as they are, late inning wins, pennant race, exciting young players, they still can't put fannies in seats. What happens when its time to sign some of these guys? You really have to wonder where the team will be in 5 years. You have to wonder where the game will be. You can't have a few big market teams always being in contention, I'm a life long Red Sox fan but even I see the danger in that. The Yankees will not make the play-offs this year but those fans know it will not be years for them to rebuild, just this off season. The Royals are still waiting for the second coming of George Brett. How long can MLB count on those fans to hope for wild card run sometime soon and spend their hard earned money on tickets? Can baseball survive with 30 teams?

[ohms_law]

They have a long loosing record. A win, even just a playoff appearance, will gain them tons of fans, but people tend to not notice until the team makes the playoffs.

I remember becoming a NJ Devils fan. We moved to Jersey when I was 13, back in '83. In the fall of 87, my dad scored some tickets to a pre-season game, and I was hooked. Well, that was the season that the Devs finally put it together, and I remember all though the regular season the stadium was virtually empty. Come playoff time, my dad suddenly had trouble getting tickets (luckily we were partial season ticket holders though, so we got some. We just didn't get extras). Continental Area was packed to the rafters every game we went to...

I'm just saying, it's way to early to be writing them off. Wait and see.
Oh, and Baseball can definitely survive with 30 teams. There's no doubt about it in my mind. As a matter of fact, I think it's time to expand again.
What baseball can't survive is many more owners like Loria...
(or the old Tampa ownership/management, for that matter)

[HoustonGM]

Agreed with ohms.

[grasshopper]

You've got to remember baseball in Florida. The Marlins won 2x and both times had the tablecloth ripped out from under them. Tampa Bay was always a joke and no consideration went into them until about 3 years ago.

TB and Miami are both huge population centers. Miami needs to commit to a new stadium and new look. They are actually finally taking the steps

TB is a hard sell. Most of their fan base for years was retiring workers from other cities. IE, lots of Yanks, Sox, Mets, Cubs, etc fans. Lately though, the local fan base is growing. They need to make their move now. A playoff run would/should win a lot of fans. I do think they can survive. Remember, we asked the same about the Rockies last year.

[Rongar]

I had always naively supposed that the teams down Florida way played their games in air-conditioned stadiums, given the humidity level of the summers down there. Apparently, this is not so

The one time that I sampled a Floridian summer, and ventured away from the pool; the sea; or the air-conditioning, I was unable to walk a block on the street, it was so sticky..

I marvel that anyone could sit out in the open, given such oppressive heat, let alone play ball in it!

[ohms_law]

TB is a hard sell. Most of their fan base for years was retiring workers from other cities. IE, lots of Yanks, Sox, Mets, Cubs, etc fans.

Everyone always makes such a big deal about this, but it bull. Their fans... half the job is done already! if the team is any good then they'll be fans of the local team, and quickly. I never understood this whole line of argument.

[Alloutwar]

I moved down to Orlando from Boston, and was a die-hard Sox fan. I went from seeing about 2,000-3,000 Rays fans at games back in '06, to now FINALLY being outnumbered in this last series. Rays to Sox fans was about 75/25 at this last series, and the stadium was the most full I've ever seen.

I grew to like and support the Rays, and I am actually happy they have fans, finally. Many of them are a bit crass, and some aren't knowledgeable about baseball; but any start is okay. I just really, really wish they hadn't decided on cowbells as their answer to the rally monkey. Distributing the most annoying noisemaker to an entire fanbase, and their kids, makes some sections a real headache.

Seeing them go to it the past few days, without Crawford or Baldelli or Gomes, makes me think they can survive.

[TheNamelessPoet]

Everyone always makes such a big deal about this, but it bull. Their fans... half the job is done already! if the team is any good then they'll be fans of the local team, and quickly. I never understood this whole line of argument.

agreed

[haveacigar]

I don't really know if baseball should expand. I don't know if the pitching talent can support any more teams.

[HoustonGM]

I don't really know if baseball should expand. I don't know if the pitching talent can support any more teams.

For what it's worth, I did a two team expansion prior to the 2012 season in Mogul, and offense skyrocketed,

[TheNamelessPoet]

For what it's worth, I did a two team expansion prior to the 2012 season in Mogul, and offense skyrocketed,

lol. the reall questin is where to... Indy MAYBE. Can texas really support a 3rd team, I have no idea. Dont give me this Vegas they are not going there.

[justanewguy]

If the Rays win even one playoff series and the team isn't dismantled like the Marlins teams were (it won't be, they seem very committed to building a winner), the fan base should grow significantly.

[FRENCHREDSOX]

For what it's worth, I did a two team expansion prior to the 2012 season in Mogul, and offense skyrocketed,

That's within the BM model (no disrespect here intended) as it stands.The IRL sport/game itself (ie talent pool*) has expanded & the MLB has emphasized international development on par with nothing that existed 20 years ago (academies in Latin America/Oceania & even in Europe).Also there is a "lot of "talent" that is not used & could be because of protectionism (thankfully Rule V stops it to a certain extent) & has shown certain players are MLB ready but "blocked" (Soria is a nice example of this


Overall I think the MLB could support 2 extra teams thanks to the influx of "outside" the US players - the major issue,IMO,is not talent BUT Finances - ie finding the Cities (US or maybe abroad),an owner willing to spend 400 million+ & a fan base.

Everyone always makes such a big deal about this, but it bull. Their fans... half the job is done already! if the team is any good then they'll be fans of the local team, and quickly. I never understood this whole line of argument.

I moved down to Orlando from Boston, and was a die-hard Sox fan. I went from seeing about 2,000-3,000 Rays fans at games back in '06, to now FINALLY being outnumbered in this last series. Rays to Sox fans was about 75/25 at this last series, and the stadium was the most full I've ever seen.

I grew to like and support the Rays, and I am actually happy they have fans, finally. Many of them are a bit crass, and some aren't knowledgeable about baseball; but any start is okay. I just really, really wish they hadn't decided on cowbells as their answer to the rally monkey. Distributing the most annoying noisemaker to an entire fanbase, and their kids, makes some sections a real headache.

Seeing them go to it the past few days, without Crawford or Baldelli or Gomes, makes me think they can survive.

Teams like the 2 Florida franchises have a major problem because of demographics (ie Aging Population WHO have the "money" to pay DAILY to see the games) rather than actual population.Those Aging guys have teams they "love" more than the Rays/Marlins & will support them rather than the 2 franchises.Just because you live in Florida doesn't stop you supporting the Sox or the Yankees.

The aim & goal is to INTEREST the kids & build from that way (like McDonalds did,lol - the kids want to see ball Dad has to take them....) . Luckily the area has a high Hispanic element who have a "natural" affinity to Baseball & both franchises have gone "multi lingual" but there success or failure in a "natural' Football state is by "doping" the kids....



* now there are Dutch/Brazilian & even Italians in the MILB who are considered prospects rather than "fillers on top of the Latin American & Asian talent that have been used in the last 30 or so years.

[HoustonGM]

That's within the BM model (no disrespect here intended) as it stands.The IRL sport/game itself (ie talent pool) has expanded & the MLB has emphasized international development on par with nothing that existed 20 years ago (academies in Latin America/Oceania & even in Europe).Also there is a "lot of "talent" that is not used & could be because of protectionism (thankfully Rule V stops it to a certain extent) & has shown certain players are MLB ready but "blocked" (Soria is a nice example of this

Expansion always comes with an increase in offense, at least historically, and I was just commenting on how the same happens in Mogul (using a manual expansion draft, but I'm sure it's even worse without running a draft), as the "pitching talent" comment made me think of. I wasn't commenting on whether or not MLB could add two more teams successfully.

[FRENCHREDSOX]

Expansion always comes with an increase in offense, at least historically, and I was just commenting on how the same happens in Mogul (using a manual expansion draft, but I'm sure it's even worse without running a draft), as the "pitching talent" comment made me think of. I wasn't commenting on whether or not MLB could add two more teams successfully.

Nor was I HGM I was simply concluding your "results" are based on the input (which are limited within the BM framework ie the players' you have ~3000 in your mog.file) & thus MAYBE your results over evaluate the actual increase in offense because of this.

Whereas IRL expansion has 10,000's of "possible" draftees which "us" roster makers don't consider or players' simply "jump" up the ladder - eg Clayton Richards or a Pablo Sandoval WHICH neither of us had/have in our OD rosters but are now valid members of their respective teams & are starters 6 month on....or players which "deserve" a shot but are classified as AAAA players & could help eg Pena of TBD was 1 when he was with the Yankees/Red Sox in 06 BEFORE rebounding in Tampa or Tatis this year.

What I said is that the talent pool is EVEN larger than it was in the '69 expansion & even the last expansion.

The talent pool increased when Robinson was accepted,it re increased when Latinos were introduced & has again expanded as the MLB has developed outside its natural frontiers of the North American continent.An increased talent pool MAY mean that the introduction of new teams will be less detrimental to the overall level.