Ned Yost fired?

[justanewguy]

I'm thinking it went something like this:

Doug Melvin: "Ned, we want you to do x, y and z with the lineup. We can't keep losing."
Ned Yost: "No. I'm sticking to what I do. It's how we're in the playoff race as it is."
Doug Melvin: "Well, if you stick to what you do, we're going to have a repeat of the past few weeks, and last year."
Ned Yost: (probably wanting to get fired) "No, I refuse."
Doug Melvin: (already having a thousand other problems with Yost, having wanted to fire Yost for years now, and knowing firing him will probably not harm the team at this point) "You're fired."

[RedsoxRockies]

This is a great way to introduce a new manager to the players, right when they are in the middle of a pennant race and were all used to the old one! This is a really stupid and idiotic move. Not that Yost was a genious, he actually was terrible with pitchers, but still, you don't fire your manager in this situation

[HoustonGM]

Joe Sheehan on why Yost was fired.

I'm quoting this large section because it was particularly illuminating, illustrating a horrendous decision Yost made just in yesterday's game:

Guillermo Mota allowed a leadoff single to Jayson Werth, and was lifted for Brian Shouse so that Shouse could face Chase Utley and Ryan Howard. (Charlie Manuel's refusal to always put a right-handed batter between those two is a big reason why the Phillies will have trouble winning a short series.) Utley sacrificed Werth to second, setting up Shouse versus Howard.

Yost elected to walk Howard to face Pat Burrell. This was... well, it strains my vocabulary to find the right word for it. Howard cannot hit left-handers, and would be a platoon player if performance mattered anywhere near as much as reputation does. Or if he had a competent manager. Howard is at .228/.313/.458 against lefties in his career, .212/.287/.410 this year. Howard. Can't. Hit. Lefties. Shouse, on the other hand, is in the major leagues for exactly one reason: lefties can't hit him, to the tune of .175/.192/.289 this year, and .211/.263/.325 for his career, which includes a bunch of years when he was barely a major leaguer. Manuel sending Howard up against Shouse was a continuation of a theme for the Phillies: not hitting for Howard when he has little chance of doing something good. He was giving Yost an out, and Yost gave it right back.

That set up Shouse versus Pat Burrell, which cried out for a right-handed reliever. After all, Shouse is a pure specialist (.307/.390/.455 vs. RHB career; .293/.371/.446 this year). The only way walking Howard even might make sense is if Yost were to bring in a righty to try and get a double play out of Burrell. Burrell doesn't have the big platoon splits he showed earlier in his career—he's a dangerous hitter against both kinds of hurlers—but leaving Shouse in to face him was asking for trouble.

Think about this for a second. Yost had a 481 OPS pitcher facing a 697 OPS hitter. He elected to issue an intentional walk in that situation to allow an 817 OPS pitcher to face a 905 OPS hitter with an additional runner on base. That's when you start looking around the roof of the stadium for snipers, because gunpoint is the only place where that kind of decision makes sense.

So it was no surprise that four pitches later, the Phillies were up 7-3. Burrell singled in one run, and Shane Victorino cleared the bases with a three-run homer to left.

If you're not going to let your left-handed specialist face Howard in that situation, when exactly should you be pitching to Howard? Moreover, if you'd rather have Shouse pitching to two good right-handed batters instead of bringing in one of your righty relievers, why not just release them all, because they're obviously not doing you any good. Eric Gagne, Seth McClung... none of these guys are very good, but all would have been better ideas than letting Shouse face Burrell. Heck, Todd Coffey is made for this situation, getting a right-handed batter out. For that matter, Salomon Torres could have been on the mound, but for the ridiculous idea of saving him for a save situation. Torres, the best righty the Brewers have, hasn't pitched since Wednesday, while Brian Shouse was facing righties with the game on the line.

Yost has always been terrible at managing a bullpen, but that's really the pinnacle of it.

[boa]

You honestly do believe that Team Management knows best, don't you?

How did you come to that conclusion? :boggle:

[etothep]

This is a great way to introduce a new manager to the players, right when they are in the middle of a pennant race and were all used to the old one! This is a really stupid and idiotic move. Not that Yost was a genious, he actually was terrible with pitchers, but still, you don't fire your manager in this situation

playoff teams fire coaches/managers near the end of the season nearly every year in hockey & the players on those teams don't seem to forget how to play hockey

is it rarer in baseball? of course, but do you think they were in a better position with the way they were playing under yost the past few weeks?

[justanewguy]

playoff teams fire coaches/managers near the end of the season nearly every year in hockey & the players on those teams don't seem to forget how to play hockey

is it rarer in baseball? of course, but do you think they were in a better position with the way they were playing under yost the past few weeks?

I think the point is that it's a contending team.

I think it's shocking, but I doubt it'll have much effect one way or the other. Also, they're not really introducing a new manager, the guy's been their coach all along. What's Ned Yost really going to do over the last 2 weeks? Screw things up more, I guess. But he's not getting hits or striking out batters. And the players aren't going to be suddenly fearful or disoriented.

I bet that's a shitty clubhouse to have to be in, though. It may actually be better now.

[HoustonGM]

It is pretty unprecedented in MLB history for a manager to be fired this late in the season, let alone one on a contending team. From Rob Neyer's blog, this is probably the closest situation:

In 1981, the Royals fired manager Jim Frey on Aug. 31. Frey had led the Royals to the World Series in 1980, but in '81 they were 20-30 when the strike began in June. The season resumed in early August, with the season now split into halves. Little more than a week later, general manager Joe Burke went looking for a new manager. He found Dick Howser, who took over from Frey with the Royals 10-10 in the second half and a half-game out of first place in the second-half standings. Under Howser, the Royals went 20-13 the rest of the way to qualify for the divisional playoffs (and were swept by the A's).

[RedsoxRockies]

It is pretty unprecedented in MLB history for a manager to be fired this last in the season, let alone one on a contending team. From Rob Neyer's blog, this is probably the closest situation:

This last? Geez Houston, you are messing up all over the place :P

[HoustonGM]

Fixed

[daves]

Was it a mistake to fire Randolph from the Mets? How did that work out? Maybe the Rays should fire their mananger so they could hold 1st place?

BTW, huge is bigger than big.

[m4rk6]

It's not the firing that's being questioned, its the timing.

[daves]

It's not the firing that's being questioned, its the timing.

Your right. The has to be the latest firing of a manager in a pennant race.

[Arctic Blast]

Absolutely bizarre...it's the only way I can think of to describe this move at this time. Is it possible Melvin is setting up a situation where a new manager will be starting next year, so that if/when he loses both Sabathia AND Sheets he can point to the new manager learning on the job being part of the reason for the team's struggles?