Running a two-back system

[Clay Dreslough]

I decided to start a new thread about a question that came up elsewhere.

Clay.. Hopefully i get answered here.. as you may know.. the game of Football is changing 90% of team are changing to a 1-2 Punch RB system.. i was possibly wondering maybe there could be a slide bar added for HB1/HB2 Strat? for sim leagues? possible? let me know

Gotcha. I saw your previous message and thought you meant that Mogul was changing and that was messing up leagues. You mean the *NFL* is changing -- I get it.

I see your point, but I don't think 90% of the NFL is on the "two-back" bandwagon. More than half the NFL had one back that rushed for 1,000+ yards last season. And most of the remaining teams had a clear #1 back.

Nevertheless, it's a good point. And I think Football Mogul can actually handle it pretty well. The game uses the 2nd RB on your depth chart as a "3rd down back". And there are 3 formations that use this player. These are explicitly labelled with "[3rd down]" in the Playbook Editor.

So, let's say you are running the Titans and want to use LenDale White and Chris Johnson as your "1-2 punch" (see screen shot).

All the plays in the default playbook use the #1 RB. So go into the Playbook Editor and change the formation for a few plays. For example, for "Ace 28 Sweep", change the formation from "Ace" to "Ace [3rd Down]". This will swap Chris Johnson in for LenDale White. If you do this for around half the plays you'll end up with a true two-back system.

[Clay Dreslough]

Here's the Playbook Editor showing a play I created using "Ace [3rd down]". The formation selection box is highlighted, and you can see that "C. Johnson" is swapped in for "L. White".

[Arctic Blast]

I like that. Seems simple, and looks like a nice way to mix up your backs (big back in power sets, speed back in spread sets, etc.). Frankly, I prefer this to a slider, since I like doing formation-specific personnel shifts.

[dentondjb87]

i guess this works.. and answers my question.. as managers for sim leagues will be submitting there own playbooks. (hopefully)

[dentondjb87]

I see your point, but I don't think 90% of the NFL is on the "two-back" bandwagon. More than half the NFL had one back that rushed for 1,000+ yards last season. And most of the remaining teams had a clear #1 back.

There is only 5 running backs right now (so far) that seem to be carrying the full load for there team.

Larry Johnson
Tomilson
Stephen Jackson
Frank Gore
Adrian Peterson (taylor isn't getting carries this year)

yes other running backs are going to obtain 1,000 yards.. 1,000 yards is nothing..

1,000 shouldn't even be a milestone.. 1,000 yards is a lousy 63 yards a game..does anybody turn there head when a running back gets 12-15 carries and gets 65 yards for the game? nah.. but most of the 1-2 punch system are one actually running back who runs..... as normal.. and the other plays third down.. and goaline.. it is very easy to obtain 1,000 yards.. Last year wasn't as bad as this year.. some teams are even running 3 running backs... in there system... check denver check patriots...

[pirate66]

BBM fan. Thought I would try out football. I downloaded it over the weekend and had already figured out how to get the 2nd RB into some plays.

Question: Does the game have a fatigue element built in anyway? I have played a few games and don't think it ever rested RB1. I also had simmed some games. After about half the season I did notice that RB2 had some carries but did not know if this might have been due to an RB1 in-game injury. This was before I found the way to make sure RB2 had some carries.

[asianinvasion]

Seattle uses three or four depending on who you ask. You have Morris and Jones as your main backs, Duckett as the short yardage and goaline back and Weaver as the blocking back/receiving back.

[dentondjb87]

but Morris is hurt atm

[ChiaPet]

This game does not accurately sim a 2 back system unless your no. 1 gets hurt. No.1 back may avg. around 200+ attempts. The no. 2 back may get 10-50 carries depending on injury.
Real World stats from the 2006 season (the meca of 2 back attacks)
10 teams using 2 backs to bolster rushing and receiving yards=significant touches for 2 backs

Saints:
McAllister 244/1057 rushing 30/198 receiving
Bush 155/565 rushing 88/742 receiving

Colts:
Rhodes 187/641 rushing 36/251 receiving
Adai 226/1081 rushing 40/325 receiving

Jags:
Taylor 231/1146 rushing 23/242 receiving
Jones-Drew 166/941 rushing 46/436 receiving

Panthers:
Foster 227/897 rushing 32/159 receiving
Williams 121/501 rushing 33/313 receiving

Falcons:
Dunn 286/1140 rushing 22/170 receiving
Norwood 99/633 rushing 12/102 receiving
(*Vick 123/1039 rushing)
*M. Vick=quarterback not really part of the 2 back system but very impressive stats for the Falcons and a very potent rushing game

Bears:
Jones 296/1210 rushing 36/154 receiving
Benson 157/647 rushing 8/54 receiving

Seahawks:
Alexander 252/896 rushing 12/48 receiving
Morris 161/604 rushing 11/46 receving

Cowboys:
Jones 267/1084 rushing 9/142 receiving
Barber 135/654 rushing 23/196 receiving

Broncos:
T Bell 233/1025 rushing 24/115 receiving
M Bell 157/677 rushing 20/158 receiving

Pats:
Dillon 199/812 rushing 15/147 receiving
Maroney 175/745 rushing 22/194 receiving


source:
www.pro-football-reference.com/

[Clay Dreslough]

I don't think we're going to see as many 2-back attacks in 2008. And this game is primarily geared toward simming 2008 and beyond.

Therefore the default playbook assumes a 1-back system. But as I mentioned above, it's pretty darn easy to edit the playbook so that your 2nd RB gets 20% or 40% or even 50% of the carries. For a good mix (I think around 30%), you can load the "Two Back" offensive playbook that comes with the game.

IMHO, it does a great job simming two backs, but you need to tweak the game plans if you know which teams will be sticking with a 2-back system.

Clay

[galaril]

Clay,

No disrespect or to belabor the point but I totally disagree on the NFL going to mostly one back. I think the exact opposite is true 2 or even three backs but definitely at least two backs. And I agree the game doesn't at least the demo sim a two back set well at all. I se you mentioned a player could alter the playbooks but that kind of defeats the purpose for players who just want to GM IMHO.

[ChiaPet]

[QUOTE=Clay Dreslough;1174406]I don't think we're going to see as many 2-back attacks in 2008. And this game is primarily geared toward simming 2008 and beyond.

I think the only reason we're not going to see as many 2 back attacks in 08 is largely because the combinations that were successful in 2006 are no longer together b/c of free agency, injuries-poor performance, off the field troubles, etc.

"simming" will reflect more of the 1 back use, altered playbooks and "playcalling each game" can yield the gamer a 2 back offense as you have illustrated.

I have purchased my first FB Mogul infinite monkey version in 99, and became quickly addicted. I liked the simming of the seasons, reviewing my player's stats and who they compared to the rest of the league. I upgraded to FB2K5 and played hundreds of seasons. I stayed away from other versions due to the negative comments posted in the forum. I didn't even try any of the Demo's.
I have tried the 2009 version Demo and more than likely will purchase it. However, my concern after trying the demo is the ability to run the ball. Granted, I am playing my beloved Saints who don't have a great ground attack to begin with since McAllister busted both knees (1st in 2005 and 2nd in 2007) Although after his first busted knee he did rush for over 1K yards in '06. I feel he is still better than the game sims him as. When I call the plays and set up a 2 back system as you instructed. I can only yield 1-2 yards per rush. It doesn't seem to matter what the defense is playing either. I called an inside rush, an outside rush against a deep prevent that I felt should have yielded more than 1 yard. I have found that this is not just in your game. I have played Front Office Football '07 with a strong rushing team and it resulted in the same, I couldn't run while my opponent ran up and down the field. It also happened with Bowl Bound College Football. Playing a college team with an A+ offense line and better than average backs could not yield a decent running game either. In FB 2009 the most frustrating part about calling the plays is seeing your opponent net 5-12 yards per carry while I call defensive plays specifically to stop the run. My favorite play result so far is Saints against the Bucs, "Garcia in trouble steps up, decides to run with it, Smith has him wrapped up but Garcia drags him for the first down.. 12 yard gain" WOW... QB Garcia drags a 300 pound DE for 12 yards for the first down. Enough said. Oh...just one more thing. Injuries. Does anyone think they are a little excessive in this game? I had 9 guys carted off on stretchers in one game. I don't think I've ever seen that in a real game.
I know I said a lot here, please forgive me for my ramblings. I am impressed with progress that the game has made since the 99 version. I can see a lot of work has gone into it.