What the hell is Sabean doing?

[HoustonGM]

Doesn't he own one of the best records of GMs all time ? Isn't SFG a relatively successful franchise under his tenure?

Yeah, it sure does wonders for one's reputation when you get lucky enough to have a hitter on your team posting the greatest offensive seasons of all time.

Anyhows,GM seems to have his likes (eg Beane/DePodesta) & his dislikes (Sabean in this case) & argues that the former do great moves/decisions whilst the latter the opposite.

Sorry, I don't make any blanket decisions like that. I prefer to evaluate each individual move on its merits. Not all moves Beane makes are good. Not all moves Sabean makes are bad.

Is calling up Gillaspie a good or bad move ? Who knows....but there is some logic behind it (read posts 10+)

I never claimed there was no logic behind it, but rather, that I think it's a stupid move and that I don't agree with it.

* MaGowan during the "Barry" era was a fervent supporter of win now policy & "veteran" presence....Sabean as all employess do,simply acquiesed & traded away youngsters for veterans & signed FAs in this light.

Yeah, true, which is the only point in favor of Sabean, that maybe it wasn't all him, but, even when given the task to rebuild, he makes poor decisions...

The policy has changed since mid 07 & the Giants' have finally accepted to rebuild using youth & FA (Rowand/Zito deals)

Like that. Those two deals sure are turning out real well. It was a genius move, and a great way to rebuild, to hand a 7 year, $120 million deal to Barry Zito, and 5 years, $60 million to a below average hitter with okay defense.

That's probably the difference between Beane and Sabean. Beane rarely, if ever, throws away money like that.

** PS GM send MaGowan your CV to replace Sabean after this season as your "knowledge" & skills are far,far superior allowing you to criticize his decision making & actual skills . You could restore then their halcyon days of dominance in the West no ?

See? It's this type of stuff, said in this sarcastic tone, that makes me make statements like:

Fine, major league organizations are infallible and can never make wrong or stupid decisions, as evidenced by the fact that whenever I disagree with a decision they make, inevitably, you or dickay (usually) immediately have to tell me why I'm wrong and the front office is right. Always. Front offices are infallible.

It's like I'm wrong for disagreeing with a major league front office, and that it's wrong to criticize them for moves they make.

Houston, I certainly am not going to say he don't have the right to express your opinions, or what have you. Of course you do. However, there are times when it really is easier to just let something go. Even if you feel you're right, if the conversation has devolved in to nothing but a mass of circling arguments, just let it go. It's something I've noticed you tend to have a hard time doing. You're hardly the only one on these forums who could stand to learn this lesson, so don't think I'm trying to single you out for anything here.

I understand. It just gets pretty damn annoying that I can discuss, debate, and disagree with the majority of posters here just fine, and yet, a few can't just leave it at that, and have to talk down to me, accuse me of nonsense, and, what's perhaps the most annoying, make overly sarcastic, sometimes insulting, comments.

[FRENCHREDSOX]

Yeah, it sure does wonders for one's reputation when you get lucky enough to have a hitter on your team posting the greatest offensive seasons of all time.

One player does not make a team...but hey you are right Bonds= Sabean's success.

I understand. It just gets pretty damn annoying that I can discuss, debate, and disagree with the majority of posters here just fine, and yet, a few can't just leave it at that, and have to talk down to me, accuse me of nonsense, and, what's perhaps the most annoying, make overly sarcastic, sometimes insulting, comments.

Now WHERE did I make an "overtly" sacarstic ,sometimes insulting,comments ?

You,yourself denigrate others - for example calling Sabean (who again I emphasize I do not know personally) just in the "title of thread" & here again SIMPLY in the last post

Those two deals sure are turning out real well. It was a genius move,

rather, that I think it's a stupid move and that I don't agree with it.

Sabean, ........even when given the task to rebuild, he makes poor decisions..

If you are so much better (& by your own comments you seem to suggest you are OBJECTIVELY superior to Sabean) then I do stand by my comments---Actually (& more seriously) with your fervour you really SHOULD send your Baseball management CV to clubs or be hired by a team where your knowledge on the game can be used,thus combining your passion & work

[HoustonGM]

One player does not make a team...but hey you are right Bonds= Sabean's success.

When that player is posting OPS's above 1.200, yeah, it helps.

Now WHERE did I make an "overtly" sacarstic ,sometimes insulting,comments ?

Right here:

** PS GM send MaGowan your CV to replace Sabean after this season as your "knowledge" & skills are far,far superior allowing you to criticize his decision making & actual skills . You could restore then their halcyon days of dominance in the West no ?

Not insulting, but overly (not overtly) sarcastic.

You,yourself denigrate others - for example calling Sabean (who again I emphasize I do not know personally) just in the "title of thread"

What do I call Sabean in the title of the thread?

& here again SIMPLY in the last post

I said that I think the move is stupid. I said that I disagree with the move. I said that I think a lot of Sabean's decisions are poor.

So, having opinions on somebody's actions, or disagreeing with someone, means that I'm insulting them as a person?

If you are so much better (& by your own comments you seem to suggest you are OBJECTIVELY superior to Sabean)

Disagreeing with a move does not mean that I think I would do a better job overall.

Actually (& more seriously) with your fervour you really SHOULD send your Baseball management CV to clubs or be hired by a team where your knowledge on the game can be used,thus combining your passion & work

If it was that simple, I'd do it, and I have looked into it a bit, because that would be a pretty awesome line of work to get into, but it's a job that is in very high demand and you really have to separate yourself from the pack, and frankly, I'm not well-versed enough in statistics, analysis, or writing, to do that.

[boa]

Who brought Bonds in?

[HoustonGM]

Who brought Bonds in?

I did. Sabean owes a huge portion of his "success" to Bonds.

[boa]

uh. to the giants i meant

[EVEN11323]

Bob Quinn? It was either him or Al Rosen

[HoustonGM]

Bob Quinn? It was either him or Al Rosen

Quinn.

[FRENCHREDSOX]

What do I call Sabean in the title of the thread?


I said that I think the move is stupid. I said that I disagree with the move. I said that I think a lot of Sabean's decisions are poor.

The implication in the title (& in the post attached) is that Sabean is once AGAIN incompetent as a GM which you further re-iterate when calling his action "stupid" & his decision's poor.

All in all it implies what you yourself are complaining about....the only difference is that you can reply to the posters

So, having opinions on somebody's actions, or disagreeing with someone, means that I'm insulting them as a person?

Depends on the linguistics you use.

Calling a person you don't even KNOW & who cannot defend themselves (nor their actions) as stupid & foolish is yes insulting them as a person as you are implying their lack of intelligence in their actions/reactions & general decision making process.BTW here you are clearer in your feelings in the DUMBEST GM in Baseball:

The answer is clearly, CLEARLY Brian Sabean, with Bavasi, Colletti, and Ricciardi duking it out for 2nd place.

He's without a doubt a bad GM, but I just think Sabean's worse.

By the way, I think Barry Zito is single-handedly proving Brian Sabean to be the worst GM in baseball. Handing out that much money for that long to a player who showed signs of decline is just incompetence at its worst.

For example how do you KNOW that it was Sabean who decided to sign Zito/Rowand or call up Gillaspie ? He is an employee of the Giants' organisation NOT the "head honcho" - he does what he is told like all employees,he may have been against the deals/moves but may have done them because of exterior effects or due to mitigating circumstances.

It was explained CLEARLY by another employee Evans,head of the Player development,why Gillaspie was called up & due to the circumstances in which the Giants are in why it was done now - clearly the decision was a "team management" effort & thus not solely Sabean's.

His overall record as a GM is positive & like all humans makes good & bad decisions WHICH can only be judged with hindsight & if all INFORMATION is known.That was why I posted in the first place

[HoustonGM]

General managers aren't above criticism, and just because you think that Sabean is a good or okay or whatever GM doesn't mean that I shouldn't be allowed to have a different opinion. Just because I think he's a bad GM doesn't mean that I think he's a dumb person. I just think he makes dumb baseball decisions. If you disagree, fine, but I'm still allowed to have my opinion. Now who's trying to force their will upon others?

You're right that some of the moves he's made aren't solely his decision, but that's all we have to go on to judge his work, and sorry, but I disagree that his overall record as a GM is positive. You can't simply judge a GM by wins and losses of his team, because his team is made up of players that he played no part in acquiring. In order to properly analyze a GM, you have to look at the individual moves he's made and how they've worked out. Sabean's track record has a couple good moves (trading for Jeff Kent), but overall, is full of stinkers, like signing Michael Tucker minutes before the arbitration deadline, surrendering their first round draft pick.

Look, I don't care if you disagree, but stop trying to make it seem as though I'm not allowed to have a different opinion.

[EVEN11323]

Wanted to bump this up. Wouldn't you think that the Giants would have actually played this guy if they wanted to get a good look at him? With one game left, he has only had 7 PAs and has only been in the field for 4 innings. Just confused why they wouldn't actually start him for at least a few games. Your thoughts?

[HoustonGM]

Wanted to bump this up. Wouldn't you think that the Giants would have actually played this guy if they wanted to get a good look at him? With one game left, he has only had 7 PAs and has only been in the field for 4 innings. Just confused why they wouldn't actually start him for at least a few games. Your thoughts?

Because it was probably just a verbal agreement when they signed his contract that they'd call him up at some point this year.

A stupid move, that did nothing except possibly harm his development.

[dickay]

Wanted to bump this up. Wouldn't you think that the Giants would have actually played this guy if they wanted to get a good look at him? With one game left, he has only had 7 PAs and has only been in the field for 4 innings. Just confused why they wouldn't actually start him for at least a few games. Your thoughts?

because as I said at the beginning of this thing, they probably wanted to keep him around baseball for a bit and have him get a glimpse at where he needs to be. I think its a great idea to bring up a young talent in Sept. when the minor league season is over. A chance to practice with the big boys and get a chance to see the talent level. I think it only makes him work harder and maybe humbles an arrogant kid as he may see he's not quite as ready as he thought. When he's called up for real in the future he can maybe act like he's been there before.

[dickay]

Because it was probably just a verbal agreement when they signed his contract that they'd call him up at some point this year.

A stupid move, that did nothing except possibly harm his development.

yeah??? playing & being around the real thing surely hurt his development more than either not playing since minor league ball is over or playing in some hack developmental league.

[kenny1234]

A stupid move, that did nothing except possibly harm his development.

I don't know if this was a smart move - but how would practicing and watching in the major leagues hurt his development. Does a few more at-bats in A-ball this season really matter that much?