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Yes, with the Cy Young. I don't see how Sabathia deserved it over Beckett, especially after Beckett outpitched him head-to-head twice in the ALCS.
Yes, I know its a regular season award, but Sabathia was arguably not even the best pitcher on his own team last year (see Carmona). Not saying Carmona was better, but its an argument that could be made.
I'm just mystified by the Sabathia over Beckett choice.
o
As you said, first, it's a regular season award, so the postseason has no influence on the voting. To ensure that, the votes are sent in PRIOR to the postseason, so the postseason literally can't affect the voting.
Anyway, I'm not sure why you can't understand the choice of Sabathia over Beckett. They had virtually identical statistics.
Beckett was 20-7, with a 3.27 ERA (145 ERA+), 17 homers allowed, 40 walks, and 194 strikeouts.
Sabathia was 19-7, with a 3.21 ERA (143 ERA+), 20 homers allowed, 37 walks, and 209 strikeouts.
Now, there was one key area that they differed - Sabathia threw 241 innings, while Beckett threw 200.2 innings. That's why Sabathia was the deserving winner - 40 more innings at the same level of effectiveness. The extra innings is also why Sabathia was better than Carmona.
I understand someone thinking Beckett should've won (especially a Boston fan), but I certainly can't see the argument that it was a "crime" considering the top candidates in the AL were all nearly identical.
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The ironic thing is that Sabathia is probably having a better year this year than he did when he won the award, and won't get considered due to switching leagues mid-season. He was pretty good in Cleveland, he's been obscene with the Brewers.
o
True, but, he's going to get considered, even though, personally, I wouldn't vote him the winner. He's getting talked about for both the Cy Young (which is understandable) and the MVP (which is flat-out ridiculous in my opinion).Originally Posted by chuckwillard
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MVP of the team, perhaps.
NL Cy Young is probably going to be Webb, and probably should be Lincecum.
MVP I couldn't begin to predict. No one really stands out to me in the NL, although I don't watch NL baseball much myself. Ryan Howard, maybe? Ryan Braun? Soto?
AL MVP doesn't jump out at me either. Hamilton and Quentin have cases, but holes in their resume's too. The two best teams in the AL are such total teams that no one individual on either stands out (LA and TB).
o
Ryan Howard has the big RBI and HR totals, but even the voters won't overlook that .234 batting average. He's got just a .324 OBP, too, 107 OPS+. He's not in the conversation (or rather, shouldn't be).
Myself, I see a clear standout. He goes by the name of...Albert Pujols. He's hitting .363/.470/.648, for a 192 OPS+. He leads the league in all three triple slash stats. He plays ridiculously good defense at first base. He's criminally underrated because he's so good that he's taken for granted. He's not getting the MVP talk he deserves because he has a teammate with more home runs and RBIs than him, and people don't understand that he's a big part of the reason why that teammate has more RBIs. Pujols is having a dominating season, and should really be the clear NL MVP, but I think he faces an uphill battle because of ridiculous ignorance on the part of the voters.
Right now, my pick's Cliff Lee. Ironically, the Indians have two solid MVP candidates - Lee and Sizemore - despite being such a disappointment. A-Rod, Hamilton, Quentin, and Pedroia all have good cases. If I voted right now, my ballot would probably go Lee, A-Rod, Quentin, Sizemore, Hamilton, but there's still a month left to play.AL MVP doesn't jump out at me either. Hamilton and Quentin have cases, but holes in their resume's too. The two best teams in the AL are such total teams that no one individual on either stands out (LA and TB).
BOOM!
Youkilis has a rock solid case too.
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I'm on the fence about a pitcher being the MVP. I can see a truly outstanding season, in a weak field, but it just doesn't seem to me that a player who plays every 5 days can possibly produce as much value as a player who plays every day.
Then again, the voters can't really get much else right, so why expect this?
o
They have a much larger effect on the games that they do play in than the position players do, which is why they can have equal or better value than position players. It IS rare that a pitcher is going to "outproduce" a position player, but it's certainly possible. Pedro Martinez in 1999, for example, and he got jobbed out of the award because two voters refused to list him ANYWHERE on their 10-slot ballot.
I can get into more advanced metrics like VORP, WARP, etc., if you'd like, but I'd rather not bore you
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Published formula stats only for me. I prefer to reproduce the numbers myself rather than taking someone else's word that they've created the metric to end all metrics.
o
Suffice it to say, even using those stats, the instances where a pitcher produces the most value in a league are rare. It only happens in years where a pitcher has a very remarkable season, and where the best position player isn't doing anything particularly extraordinary. I think that, in the AL this year, that situation has risen. However, there's still a month left in the season. I suspect that, come the end of the season, my "vote" will be one of A-Rod, Sizemore, Quentin, or Hamilton. Pedroia, Youkilis, and the next rung of players could sneak in with a huge September. Cliff Lee, though, will likely be in my top-5, if not my top-3.
Very true ALTHOUGH I think this guy is more deserving simply because he is their POWER hitter on a team which would not be in the race for a division title without him*.Youk is 1 element (& has been outstanding) of a multi faceted team (power from Manny(when he was here),Papi,Drew),OBP from Pedroia etc etc.
Again Morneau & Youkilis WONT win - simply because they aren't fan/writers' favourites & it will go to a "name" player.
Still say that AL Cy should be Halladay - top 3 in Wins,ERA,Ks & has pitched those 8 CGs - 5 better than the 2nd best - that in itself is a Cy for me - not only is dominant BUT helps the pen too! In all likelyhood Lee gets it because of the "story" on top of the actual performance
* which when it comes Down to it (for me) is the de facto definition of what a MVP should be - the difference maker to a team's performance
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As of now, I'd probably go with Quentin. Still a lot of baseball to be played, though.
Jeez, that sounded cliched. Yuck...
o
See, this thing, I just don't get. It's penalizing some players for the makeup of their team, while overvaluing other players for the makeup of their team. It should be strictly - who gave their team more value. That Morneau is the only power hitter on his team doesn't increase the value of his power hitting.
Morneau won a couple years ago when there was a very big name player that had a better season.Again Morneau & Youkilis WONT win - simply because they aren't fan/writers' favourites & it will go to a "name" player.
It's actually 4 more - Cliff Lee has 4 himself with the other night's shutout. I understand the Halladay argument, but, Cliff Lee's per-inning performance has been MUCH better than Halladay's, and the difference in innings is NOT substantial at all, despite the difference in complete games. Halladay is getting roughly 7.5 innings per start, to Lee's 7.2 innings per start, which is a miniscule difference. Honestly, it's going to be decided in September. If they both continue at the same pace they are, it's Lee. But if Lee goes, say 3-1 with a 4.20 ERA in his 5 final starts and Halladay goes 4-0 with a 3.00 ERA, and Halladay throws a handful of more innings, Halladay will have a much better case than he does now.Still say that AL Cy should be Hallayday - top 3 in Wins,ERA,Ks & has pitched those 8 CGs - 5 better than the 2 best - that in itself is a Cy for me - not only is dominant BUT helps the pen too!
Your view is your view,GM,but when you know you are the only power source & you actually do continue to hit .300+ with power --- then that should be considered in what you bring to the team & subsequently to MVP voting,IMO.
Minnesota are in the bottom 4 in HR production(2nd worst in the AL by 2 HRs) but are still in a division race.You remove Morneau or replace him with a "league" average 1B then they would be on the outside looking in.
Again it is my opinion a MVP is a difference maker to a team - the other teams - Tampa/Angel/both Sox dont have 1 difference maker but multiple - Tampa 149HRs,Red Sox 148,Angels 128,White Sox a ludicrous 199 - Minny ? 98!
anyways here is Perry (Fox Sports) take:
so he seems to agree with youThe concept is simple: Give the award to the best player. It's shocking how often that doesn't happen.
Anyhow, in the NL Albert Pujols is without question the MVP. He leads the league in batting average, on-base percentage, and slugging percentage, and he's got 87 walks against just 47 strikeouts. To boot, he's been devastatingly clutch (as always), and he's excellent with the glove and on the bases. There's no argument in the NL.
In the AL, though, things are less clear. Josh Hamilton doesn't deserve the award, but his lofty RBI total in tandem with his personal back-story may be enough to sway voters. Among position players, Grady Sizemore is probably most worthy, but the voters will penalize him for having bad teammates. If the White Sox win the Central, then Carlos Quentin will get a serious look. However, if the Twins take it, then Justin Morneau might win the award for the second time in his young career (although he didn't deserve it the first time around). Kevin Youkilis and Dustin Pedroia might split the Red Sox vote, so it seems unlikely that a Boston player will take it. Of course, if they manage to come back and win the East, then Pedroia might be the guy.
The NL Cy Young voting is going to be interesting. CC Sabathia, who's been otherworldly since joining the Brewers, is enjoying a groundswell of support. And if he keeps racking up wins and notching complete games, then the voters will notice. With that said, Tim Lincecum has been the best pitcher in the NL, and right now he should win the Cy. If you're looking for a darkhorse candidate, then keep Ryan Dempster in mind.
In the AL, Cliff Lee (narrowly) deserves to win it, and the voters seem to agree. Roy Halladay's also had an excellent season, but he hasn't been quite as good as Lee.
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