K-Rod's banner season doesn't justify Cy Young hype

[Wassit3]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8...-Cy-Young-hype

[justanewguy]

I say yes.

But not THIS reliever.

Eric Gagne's Cy Young season should pretty much be the benchmark.

[HoustonGM]

Yeah, relievers should be allowed to win the Cy Young - so long as they really were the best pitcher in the league, and that takes a lot for a reliever to overcome the best starter.

K-Rod winning the Cy Young award would be horrendous. He's not even the best reliever in the league, let alone better than Cliff Lee and Roy Halladay, the two guys who should be 1-2.

[justanewguy]

Yeah, relievers should be allowed to win the Cy Young - so long as they really were the best pitcher in the league, and that takes a lot for a reliever to overcome the best starter.

A whole lot. Even when Gagne did it, Schmidt had an absolutely great season. But not exactly an incredible season, where Gagne was doing very special things, and had just as good a season the year after, to prove it wasn't a fluke and validate the award even more.

K-Rod winning the Cy Young award would be horrendous. He's not even the best reliever in the league, let alone better than Cliff Lee and Roy Halladay, the two guys who should be 1-2.

I have faith that those voting are smart enough to not be so enamored by a save total. But if he breaks the record, it'll be a close vote.

I think Matsuzaka deserves to be in the conversation if Halladay is. He's had practically as good a season (outside of sheer starts, not to mention CG), and is a huge part of a team in contention.

Cliff Lee is absolutely unreal though, and is closer every day to locking it up.

[HoustonGM]

I think Matsuzaka deserves to be in the conversation if Halladay is. He's had practically as good a season (outside of sheer starts, not to mention CG), and is a huge part of a team in contention.

Halladay's thrown 204 innings so far, at a 158 ERA+. He's struck out 175 and walked 34, allowed 15 home runs. Matszuaka's thrown 70 less innings, with 132.2, at a 151 ERA+. His peripheral numbers are pretty poor - 10 homers, 78 walks and 117 strikeouts.

Matsuzaka is not near the discussion, while Halladay's the clear #2 to Lee. The innings Halladay provides are a big chunk of his value, and Matsuzaka is nowhere near that, and that absolutely must be accounted for (which is why Sabathia deserved the Cy Young over Beckett last year). Matsuzaka's also getting very lucky to have an ERA that high. He's not going to sustain that unless he cuts his walk rate drastically.

Cliff Lee is absolutely unreal though, and is closer every day to locking it up.

Agreed.

[justanewguy]

Halladay's thrown 204 innings so far, at a 158 ERA+. He's struck out 175 and walked 34, allowed 15 home runs. Matszuaka's thrown 70 less innings, with 132.2, at a 151 ERA+. His peripheral numbers are pretty poor - 10 homers, 78 walks and 117 strikeouts.

Matsuzaka is not near the discussion, while Halladay's the clear #2 to Lee. The innings Halladay provides are a big chunk of his value, and Matsuzaka is nowhere near that, and that absolutely must be accounted for (which is why Sabathia deserved the Cy Young over Beckett last year). Matsuzaka's also getting very lucky to have an ERA that high. He's not going to sustain that unless he cuts his walk rate drastically.

You're right, I didn't look at the numbers all that closely, but I knew Matsuzaka was walking a lot of batters. The innings are definitely huge in Halladay's favor, and I had DiceK after Halladay anyway.

However, I tend to lean toward the camp that places extra value on players in terms of the team's overall success when it comes to MVPs and Cy Youngs. I also feel that results trump detailed stats. If the ERAs, win totals, and ERA+s are similar, I wouldn't hold it against a pitcher for getting it done in an "ugly" way. The biggest difference between the two, in my mind, is the innings. And while DiceK did miss a few starts, the fact that Halladay can go out to start and finish a game, along with his detailed stats, outweigh Matsuzaka.

Still, I'd put Matsuzaka third, but probably closer to Halladay than you would.

[boomboom]

Halladay is one of the most dominating pitchers this season. I don't think that CLiff lee knows how to pitch anything outside of the strike zone anymore...his strike to ball ratio is amazing...

[HoustonGM]

However, I tend to lean toward the camp that places extra value on players in terms of the team's overall success when it comes to MVPs and Cy Youngs. I also feel that results trump detailed stats. If the ERAs, win totals, and ERA+s are similar, I wouldn't hold it against a pitcher for getting it done in an "ugly" way.

For award purposes, yes, I'd agree. Although, and I'm sure you know, if a pitcher gets it done in an "ugly" way, he's not likely to sustain that in the future.

The biggest difference between the two, in my mind, is the innings. And while DiceK did miss a few starts, the fact that Halladay can go out to start and finish a game, along with his detailed stats, outweigh Matsuzaka.

Still, I'd put Matsuzaka third, but probably closer to Halladay than you would.

I think the lack of innings really puts Matsuzaka far behind. He doesn't even qualify for the ERA title as of right now, although he's close to. I'd put Lackey ahead of Matsuzaka, but he's very close in innings. I'd also put Duchscherer ahead of him, although at the end of the season, Matsuzaka's likely to be ahead of Duke. I haven't done any real serious analysis, but a quick eyeball, I'd put the Cy Young ballot as Lee-Halladay-Joe Nathan-Duchscherer-Lackey-Matsuzaka, as of right now. Come the end of the season, I'd guess that it'd be more like Lee-Halladay-Lackey-Matsuzaka-Nathan

[filihok]

Curious if the 6 people who think that relievers should NEVER win the Cy Young would care to explain their reasoning.

[WiffleBaller]

I think relievers need their own award, the rolaids relief award sucks. I'd like to see one for them cause i consider most closers over-rated. not to say i dont think closers ever deserve it. Gange did, but K-Rod should be in the conversation this year.


Oh, and Roy Halladay wipes the floor with dice-k

[HoustonGM]

I think relievers need their own award, the rolaids relief award sucks.

True, it's just a point system, no actual voting. I think relievers are fine as is, though.

I'd like to see one for them cause i consider most closers over-rated. not to say i dont think closers ever deserve it. Gange did, but K-Rod should be in the conversation this year.

You mean shouldn't?

[FRENCHREDSOX]

Although Lee has been outstanding I personally would vote for Hallyday - reason+ is 8 COMPLETE games & IMO a tougher division.


He won't win as Lee is the "golden boy" story of the moment

(btw I have nothing against relievers winning the Cy but they have to work harder than a SP,similar to a DH v a Position player - K Rod has been good but the guys above are a better reflection of what the award stands for.)

[Frijolito]

Cc

[WiffleBaller]

True, it's just a point system, no actual voting. I think relievers are fine as is, though.


You mean shouldn't?

That is in fact a typo, thanks. I was saying he shouldn't be in the convo this year.

[Slingshot]

Keep in mind that K-Rod is indeed having a remarkable season. Closers are in my opinion result guys, not stat guys. By that I mean that their ERA and K's numbers doesn't really matter that much, they're only out there to do one thing and that is to close games. And he's on pace to having well over 60 saves. That gets 5 stars in my book. Not saying he should win the Cy Young award, but he should definately be in the consideration.