Federal Anti-iGang Agent
Basically what Ohms is stating with his facts are that the crime rate in the United States is not affected by the legalization or the criminality of drugs. Amsterdam has a very low crime rate is also one of his points.Originally Posted by RedsoxRockies
Basically, taking what dickay claimed and using his sources to disprove it.
Certifiable
LOL, and I would still love to hear the answer to your original question. And if someone doesn't support lowering the drinking age to 18, would they then support raising the draft age to 21? And would they support raising the age at which you stand trial in an adult court to 21? And would they support raising the age to vote and own real property to 21?
In other words, would they agree on an age when one becomes an adult or not.
Federal Anti-iGang Agent
My answer to the lower drinking age question?
Certifiable
No, I read your post and you sounded like you were leaning toward supporting it. I was more interested in those that flat out oppose it. Which is fine by me. I just wonder then would they support raising those ages I mentioned.
I wouldn't care if it was 18, 19, 20, 21, 22 or whatever, but it should be one age for them all. It is utter hypocrisy to say a person is old enough to handle the emotional trauma and ravages of war but isn't old enough to handle the responsibility of drinking. Or facing charges in an adult court, since they're obviously not considered adults.
E=I*R
It took a little bit to dig up, since the original stories were posted on Friday, August 22nd, but here's the AP piece that started all of this: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5j...RP8CgD92NJEV00
You insist that there is something a machine cannot do. If you will tell me precisely what it is that a machine cannot do, then I can always make a machine which will do just that! -J. von Neumann
E=I*R
That sounds about right to me.
You insist that there is something a machine cannot do. If you will tell me precisely what it is that a machine cannot do, then I can always make a machine which will do just that! -J. von Neumann
Registered User
Sorry Ohms...but I don't know where you cherry pick your info from either. A simple google of amsterdam violent crime rate popped up many articles. Here is one of the first;
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten...1/266umtwb.asp
Master of Ale!
Yep. But, rather than doing that, we'd rather try and scare the everliving crap out of the kids we're trying to teach (Sorry for going on and on about this, but it really does bother me).
E=I*R
See my post above (post #90) for more on this. Citing flawed studies to make an argument invalidates the whole argument.The same pattern can be seen throughout Europe--indeed, in much of the developed world. Crime has recently hit record highs in Paris, Madrid, Stockholm, Amsterdam, Toronto, and a host of other major cities. In a 2001 study, the British Home Office (the equivalent of the U.S. Department of Justice) found violent and property crime increased in the late 1990s in every wealthy country except the United States. American property crime rates have been lower than those in Britain, Canada, and France since the early 1990s, and violent crime rates throughout the E.U., Australia, and Canada have recently begun to equal and even surpass those in the United States. Even Sweden, once the epitome of cosmopolitan
socialist prosperity, now has a crime victimization rate 20 percent higher than the United States.
Me too.
You insist that there is something a machine cannot do. If you will tell me precisely what it is that a machine cannot do, then I can always make a machine which will do just that! -J. von Neumann
Federal Anti-iGang Agent
I agree with this. Much like the abstinence teaching it's more of a "listen, bad things can happen if you do this irresponsibly. Know you're limits...know you're safe and know you're ready. Don't be pressured."
Instead of "If you have sex you will get herpes and DIE" kind of tactic.
╝+┼╣,►ΘΩδ
In my town they are viscious about this kind of stuff. It is abnoxious. Both the Anti Drugs/Drinking and the Sex Ed.
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Registered User
That's only if they're actually flawed though Ohms. However, if you want to agree with one bias over the other on Amsterdam than that is fine, how bout the dozen other examples cited.See my post above (post #90) for more on this. Citing flawed studies to make an argument invalidates the whole argument.
This is why I won't go and research the info for anyone anymore. People already have their minds made up and find information, as bias as it is, to support their argument....completely ignoring everything else. I truly believe there are two sides to every story and usually the truth lies somewhere in near the middle. Legalization of drugs has proven time and time again to fail. I'm sure there are places, instances, communities where it wouldn't matter much if drugs were legalized...but as a whole it doesn't work.
One more time however, for the sake of the thread and so there is no confusion...I do support lowering the age to 18.
E=I*R
dickay, it was a flawed statistical study. That's it, game over. There's no arguing with that.
It's like saying... I don't know, it's like saying that Bonds is obviously better than Ruth was since he now has more home runs.
ps.: See post #89...
You insist that there is something a machine cannot do. If you will tell me precisely what it is that a machine cannot do, then I can always make a machine which will do just that! -J. von Neumann
Registered User
You say its a flawed study, but all your post shows was that a source feels comparing crime rates 'between countries' is flawed. Surely Amsterdam can evaluate whether or not 'their' violent crime rate has increased or not....and the reports show that it has.
As for post #89....wrong again. We can and should keep drugs criminilized for reasons I had hoped were obvious but a little research shows that drug use not only is bad for the individual but for society as a whole. While doing that we also SHOULD attack the reasons why drug are used....this is an area we find agreement with
o
Every time this discussion happens, I've only seen you say, nearly verbatim every time, "It's been proven time and time again that drug legalization harms society, and if you just look it up you'll see that places that legalized drugs were harmed by it. I'm not going to show you because I've done it in the past and I'm tired of it."
I've been in a good amount of such conversations, and you've said the exact same thing, every single time. It might be good to stop saying "I've done it before, I'm not doing it again. It's proven," and...actually provide information to back up what you're saying, like ohms is, providing information directly from our own government.
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