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You've been arguing "for" multiple different viewpoints in this thread. You seem to be playing devil's advocate a lot.Originally Posted by filihok
I'm pretty sure I know what you're opinion on the subject is (and I think we agree), yet you're still debating me.
o
Every wreck causes harm in some way. "Harm" isn't necessarily physical.
Relax, I've seen worse.
I'm intimately familiar with wrecks.
That aside, it depends where you set the bar for what qualifies as "harmed".
For some, the mere headache of now having to fence with their insurance company, and take the time to fill out the appropriate DMV paperwork may be "harm" enough.
If you mean "injured", different discussion.
"Baseball statistics are a lot like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything."-Toby Harrah
"It's hard to look pissed off eating Apple Jacks."-Sh*t my Dad Says
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I've stated my viewpoint as plainly as I know how to:
I believe on these issues that are not black and white people need to be able to choose and live in a community that fits their needs.
As I said before, I got involved in this arug...discussion when people started saying that personal choices only effect the person. That I believe is totally false.
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In the same way that no personal choice is solely personal, yes.
In the same way that someone could believe that the harm that comes from drinking isn't only to the person drinking?
o
Which I'm not disagreeing with.
When a person makes a choice on something that involves no other people, yes, that choice affects only that person.
If I decided to get drunk (replace get drunk with taking any drug) right now, here alone in my room, I'm affecting nobody but myself. Show me how that's not true.
o
For somebody that's arguing over people thinking things are too black and white, you're sure making a very black and white argument here.
Show me how a person drinking affects anybody besides that person.In the same way that someone could believe that the harm that comes from drinking isn't only to the person drinking?
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You went to the store, you purchased alcohol from a clerk. You had an effect on that person's life. You encountered people on the way to and from the store. You spent that money on that item instead of myriad other possible items...
o
None of that is the sole action of getting drunk affecting anybody else besides the person drinking.
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How is it not?
E=I*R
I think that I've stated my view multiple times already:
Drinking or drug use in general should be legal.
Doing otherwise bad things while intoxicated in some manner is no excuse though. As a matter of fact, I fully support increasing punishments (or even better, mandating some sort of help) for those incidents. Chemical use being a "root cause", while certainly true, bears little if any relation to dealing with the problem(s). "relation does not equal causation". The fact that someone is drunk or otherwise high is incidental to the point that they just killed someone with a car. The problem is that they killed someone with a car. That the reason the driver couldn't avoid the accident may be due to the fact that the driver was intoxicated is irrelevant after the point that they made the decision to climb behind the wheel of the car. The same could be said of public drunkenness and fighting, or any other problems that occur incidentally to drug and alcohol abuse.
You insist that there is something a machine cannot do. If you will tell me precisely what it is that a machine cannot do, then I can always make a machine which will do just that! -J. von Neumann
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This is the action of purchasing alcohol.
This is the action of going to the store.You encountered people on the way to and from the store.
This is the action of purchasing alcohol.You spent that money on that item instead of myriad other possible items...
The action of consuming alcohol affects nobody besides the person consuming the alcohol.
o
Yep, agreed 100%.
E=I*R
This is the crux of the "problem" that we're running into in this thread. We're not talking about what you're talking about. You're actually not even arguing the point of the thread, but instead advocating some sort of political ideology... which is great, it's simply misplaced.
You insist that there is something a machine cannot do. If you will tell me precisely what it is that a machine cannot do, then I can always make a machine which will do just that! -J. von Neumann
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I defy that you can consume alcohol without interacting with another person at any step along the way
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