HOF for futute pitchers

[grasshopper]

I will cry from the hills against Pedro. You know why. When he left Montreal he became a Sox. Period. You know what my team is.

I will admit, the only time I saw Pedro pitch was in Seattle and he lost. Rod Beck closed the game. Look him up, he died recently.

[HoustonGM]

I will cry from the hills against Pedro. You know why. When he left Montreal he became a Sox. Period. You know what my team is.

In other words, you're irrational about the Red Sox and cannot put your fandom aside in the interest of objectively analyzing a player. You're the Yankee fan version of metsguy234.

[HoustonGM]

I will admit, the only time I saw Pedro pitch was in Seattle and he lost. Rod Beck closed the game. Look him up, he died recently.

The only game that Pedro pitched against Seattle that Rod Beck also pitched in was this one. Pedro Martinez WON and utterly dominated the Mariners to the tune of 15 strikeouts in 8 innings, allowing just 2 hits and 3 walks.

I think your memory failed you in this case (which, PLEASE, do not take as an insult. You're only human, and the human memory can be a deceptive thing).

[grasshopper]

I admit, sometimes yes. Pedro was a Yankee killer. If you go look up your stats, check out his stats against the Yanks. Probably one of the most impressive in Boston's history.

[HoustonGM]

I admit, sometimes yes. Pedro was a Yankee killer. If you go look up your stats, check out his stats against the Yanks. Probably one of the most impressive in Boston's history.

11-11 with a 3.20 ERA....which is below average for Pedro.

[grasshopper]

Still better than most. 11-11 against the Yankees is not bad. You were right though. It was 1999. Beck pitched the same game but was pitching for Boston. My bad. Boston still lost though.

I am going by memory here. What do you do, sit there with a complete baseball encyclopedia?

[HoustonGM]

You were right though. It was 1999. Beck pitched the same game but was pitching for Boston. My bad. Boston still lost though.

Huh? There were 2 games that Rod Beck pitched against Seattle in 1999, and Boston won both those games. The only game that Pedro Martinez pitched against Seattle that Rod Beck also pitched in, Pedro dominated and the Red Sox won. You've lost me here.

I am going by memory here. What do you do, sit there with a complete baseball encyclopedia?

Considering we're posting on the internet....

[metsguy234]

Search Rod Beck's game logs in 1999. See that he pitched 2 games against Seattle. View the results and see Boston won both games. Check to see if Pedro pitched in one.

Doesn't require an encyclopedia...

[grasshopper]

I ****ing give up. Now you guys have me so confused. All I know is Pedro pitched and so did Beck. I am probably wrong on everything. At least I know I was there and made long life shortening friends in Seattle. We smoked on an overhang and then drank ourselves silly.

Consult your little numbers, but I am getting so sick of people chiming in with their numbers off of Wikipedia or others sites. No wonder other teams cant measure. GO TO GAMES! ENJOY! Use the internet for porn.

[HoustonGM]

I ****ing give up. Now you guys have me so confused. All I know is Pedro pitched and so did Beck.

Yes, and the Red Sox won, and Pedro pitched amazingly.

At least I know I was there and made long life shortening friends in Seattle. We smoked on an overhang and then drank ourselves silly.

Well, then, are you really surprised that you remembered the game wrong?

Consult your little numbers, but I am getting so sick of people chiming in with their numbers off of Wikipedia or others sites. No wonder other teams cant measure. GO TO GAMES! ENJOY! Use the internet for porn.

Dude, chill out. Memory fails EVERYBODY sometimes. You got the winner of a game you saw 10 years ago wrong, so what? No need to flip out over being corrected. I don't know why you're getting sick of people...uhm...consulting facts...or why you think this is some sort of Red Sox fan conspiracy, judging by your "No wonder other teams cant measure" comment, because I'm no Boston fan, or why you think looking things up and consulting the statistical record means someone doesn't go to games and enjoy them....Seriously, chill out.

[grasshopper]

OK Houston. No harm no foul.

[HoustonGM]

Alright.

[grasshopper]

I always have to have the last word. How about Sabathia or Hernandez? Sabathia has been incredible since the move.

[HoustonGM]

I always have to have the last word. How about Sabathia or Hernandez? Sabathia has been incredible since the move.

What are you asking about them?

[oriole^]

Sabathia would have to pitch several more seasons at his current level or one higher to be consider, IMHO.

And there's no way I'll agree with Martinez being better than Ryan. Pedro was an amazing pitcher; he'll go to the Hall and deserves to. But consider that at Pedro's current age - 36 - he's gone 16-12 for the past 3 seasons with an ERA over 4. Ryan at 36 was ninth in Cy Young voting, going 14-9 with a sub-3 ERA for a Houston team that was lucky to reach .500 on the dot, as were most of Ryan's teams.

Yes, he had control problems, but those were either early in the career or in seasons where he typically pitched a ton of innings - over 300 IP twice. By contrast, Pedro only pitched over 230 IP twice; Ryan did that ten times, the latest was when he was 42. Pedro's K/W was phenomenal, but he paid for it by letting folks hit it over the fence...Ryan had one season where he gave up 20 HR in a career over half again as long as Pedro's - Pedro went over 20 HR three times and had three more seasons with 19.

Not to say that Pedro isn't absolutely amazing - he is. But I'll be more willing to compare them when Pedro is pitching with a winning record for a lousy team in 2014, and striking out over 150 with an ERA half a run below league average.