Is Edgar Martinez a Hall of Famer?

[asianinvasion]

Check out this site.
There are 6 players that have a .300+ Batting Average, .400+ OBP, .500+ SLG, 2000+ hits, 300+ homeruns, 500+ doubles and 1000+ walks. They are Ted Williams, Babe Ruth, Stan Musial, Rogers Hornsby, Lou Gehrig, and what do you know, Edgar Martinez. All but Martinez are in the Hall of Fame.
And there are 15 players that have a .300 AVE, .400 OBP, and a .500 SLG. 13 of them are in the Hall of Fame. Only Joe Jackson and Edgar aren't. The Others are Ty Cobb, Stan Musial, Tris Speaker, Mel Ott, Babe Ruth, Rogers Hornsby, Jimmie Foxx, Lou Gehrig, Harry Heilmann, Ted Williams, Ed Delahanty, Dan Brouthers, Hank Greenberg, Joe Jackson and Edgar Martinez.

[metsguy234]

http://thebbreport.blogspot.com/2008...-martinez.html

So as usually there is a storm a brewing on the Sports Mogul forums. If you haven't noticed lately that forum has heated up and is one of the more active sports forums on the net.

That's a bit bold to say

[HoustonGM]

Check out this site.
There are 6 players that have a .300+ Batting Average, .400+ OBP, .500+ SLG, 2000+ hits, 300+ homeruns, 500+ doubles and 1000+ walks. They are Ted Williams, Babe Ruth, Stan Musial, Rogers Hornsby, Lou Gehrig, and what do you know, Edgar Martinez. All but Martinez are in the Hall of Fame.
And there are 15 players that have a .300 AVE, .400 OBP, and a .500 SLG. 13 of them are in the Hall of Fame. Only Joe Jackson and Edgar aren't. The Others are Ty Cobb, Stan Musial, Tris Speaker, Mel Ott, Babe Ruth, Rogers Hornsby, Jimmie Foxx, Lou Gehrig, Harry Heilmann, Ted Williams, Ed Delahanty, Dan Brouthers, Hank Greenberg, Joe Jackson and Edgar Martinez.

I don't usually like these types of arguments, as you can usually choose a combination of stats for any player that'll put them in a group of Hall of Famers, even when they're nobody's idea of a Hall of Famer...

[dickay]

Check out this site.
There are 6 players that have a .300+ Batting Average, .400+ OBP, .500+ SLG, 2000+ hits, 300+ homeruns, 500+ doubles and 1000+ walks. They are Ted Williams, Babe Ruth, Stan Musial, Rogers Hornsby, Lou Gehrig, and what do you know, Edgar Martinez. All but Martinez are in the Hall of Fame.
And there are 15 players that have a .300 AVE, .400 OBP, and a .500 SLG. 13 of them are in the Hall of Fame. Only Joe Jackson and Edgar aren't. The Others are Ty Cobb, Stan Musial, Tris Speaker, Mel Ott, Babe Ruth, Rogers Hornsby, Jimmie Foxx, Lou Gehrig, Harry Heilmann, Ted Williams, Ed Delahanty, Dan Brouthers, Hank Greenberg, Joe Jackson and Edgar Martinez.

Now THATS the kind of interesting stuff that can get me to change my mind. I think you still have to ask yourself how much if any was bloated by roids. I said before a fulltime DH has to go above and beyond statistically...and maybe after seeing these numbers as a whole and compared with other greats, one could argue that he has.

So again, do I think they will vote him in...probably not.

Do I think he deserves HOF...i'm on the fence, but probably leaning towards yes. I'd have to give it much more thought should I have a vote than I'm willing to give it.

[dickay]

I don't usually like these types of arguments, as you can usually choose a combination of stats for any player that'll put them in a group of Hall of Famers, even when they're nobody's idea of a Hall of Famer...

I agree with your 'usually' statement. You have to be careful with these comparisons, but I think the one done here with Edgar is pretty concrete and well done.

[HoustonGM]

I agree with your 'usually' statement. You have to be careful with these comparisons, but I think the one done here with Edgar is pretty concrete and well done.

The rate stat one, I'd agree with you that it's concrete and well-done. The first one, not as much, mostly because it's a bunch of stats, and the more stats you add to these sorts of arguments, the less convincing they become, I think.

[boomboom]

Check out this site.
There are 6 players that have a .300+ Batting Average, .400+ OBP, .500+ SLG, 2000+ hits, 300+ homeruns, 500+ doubles and 1000+ walks. They are Ted Williams, Babe Ruth, Stan Musial, Rogers Hornsby, Lou Gehrig, and what do you know, Edgar Martinez. All but Martinez are in the Hall of Fame.
And there are 15 players that have a .300 AVE, .400 OBP, and a .500 SLG. 13 of them are in the Hall of Fame. Only Joe Jackson and Edgar aren't. The Others are Ty Cobb, Stan Musial, Tris Speaker, Mel Ott, Babe Ruth, Rogers Hornsby, Jimmie Foxx, Lou Gehrig, Harry Heilmann, Ted Williams, Ed Delahanty, Dan Brouthers, Hank Greenberg, Joe Jackson and Edgar Martinez.

that site has been around, I found it a few years ago. I went searching for a Edgar Photo on google and that pic came up. I stole that pic and put it on thebbreport.blogspot.com

[dannymac910]

I would say no.

[boomboom]

I would say no.

Why?

[metsguy234]

Why?

I believe Edgar Martinez crushed Dannymac's Yankees multiple times

[boomboom]

I believe Edgar Martinez crushed Dannymac's Yankees multiple times

[exaggeration]He hit something like 3.000 for that series in 95'...lol [/exaggeration]

[dps]

I agree with your 'usually' statement. You have to be careful with these comparisons, but I think the one done here with Edgar is pretty concrete and well done.

I don't. The way to test an argument like this is to look and see if the guy under discussion in truly "in" the group, that is to say, is he truly as good as the other guys in the group, on average. The best way to tell if he's "in" the group is to see where he ranks. He should be around the middle of the group in most of the criteria if he truly belongs. If he's at or near the bottom of the group in most of the criteria, it just means that he's being listed with a group of players who were distinctly better, in hopes of fooling people into thinking he was just as good.

I haven't checked all the stats yet (I just don't have the time right now) but my impression is that Edgar ranks close to the bottom of the lists in most of the stats given.

[dickay]

I don't. The way to test an argument like this is to look and see if the guy under discussion in truly "in" the group, that is to say, is he truly as good as the other guys in the group, on average. The best way to tell if he's "in" the group is to see where he ranks. He should be around the middle of the group in most of the criteria if he truly belongs. If he's at or near the bottom of the group in most of the criteria, it just means that he's being listed with a group of players who were distinctly better, in hopes of fooling people into thinking he was just as good.

I haven't checked all the stats yet (I just don't have the time right now) but my impression is that Edgar ranks close to the bottom of the lists in most of the stats given.

But too often people cherry pick stats that suit their arguments, so as he said...he 'usually' doesn't like them and you have to be careful when reading them.

[dps]

But too often people cherry pick stats that suit their arguments, so as he said...he 'usually' doesn't like them and you have to be careful when reading them.

Yes, but then he went on to say that in this case, he felt that the argument had merit. My point was that I won't make that judgement unless or until I have a chance to carefully consider the stats involved, which I don't have time to do right now.

BTW, the basic reason that the Marineers left Edgar in the minors so long was that they didn't think that he'd hit for much power and didn't think that a guy with limited power and very little to no speed would provide enough offense to help them win, no matter how high his AVE and OBP.

[asianinvasion]

Only if Edgar would have been born a decade later, Billy Beane would have taken him and Edgar would have 3,000 hits.