Most Undeserving Hall of Famer

[haveacigar]

i only got thru the 1st page when I posted this... but gold gloves are nothing but a popularoty contest... they dont show a players true performance. both maddux and griffey have won them *withoout looking at the records) and had lower fielding records than others...

In many cases, you're right.

I don't think there's any doubt that Ozzie Smith deserved all of his gold gloves, however.

i'm biased against Rabbit Maranville because I signed him when playing an early 20th century mogul dynasty, and he sucked.

[Jeffy25]

Can we say all of Frankie Fisch's friends?

[HoustonGM]

Can we say all of Frankie Fisch's friends?

You complained about that other thread being bumped yet you bumped this? lol

[metsguy234]

I'm gonna have to agree with the OP's sentiments.

[HoustonGM]

I'm gonna have to agree with the OP's sentiments.

You were wrong then, and you're still wrong now.

[Jeffy25]

Ozzie in career WAR, is the 82nd highest all time position player with a 64.7, sandwiched between Tim Raines and Ernie Banks.

Ernie and Ozzie being equal, and you think his defense is over rated?

a .978 fielding percentage is what you see, yet you fail to notice that he also reached balls that other shortstops just watched.

But hey, whatever, Friddie Lindstrom and Chick Hafey are enjoying their hall of fame votes as well.

[haveacigar]

Metsguy was saying a lot of the stuff mightyzug would say, just with less artful language and shorter posts.

[metsguy234]

Ozzie in career WAR, is the 82nd highest all time position player with a 64.7, sandwiched between Tim Raines and Ernie Banks.

Ernie and Ozzie being equal, and you think his defense is over rated?

a .978 fielding percentage is what you see, yet you fail to notice that he also reached balls that other shortstops just watched.

But hey, whatever, Friddie Lindstrom and Chick Hafey are enjoying their hall of fame votes as well.

WAR is one stat that I haven't taken the time to familiarize myself with yet so I'm not sure about any of that stuff.

Maybe he was one of those "you had to see him" type guys, that people who didn't watch him don't appreciate. Who knows?

(btw, Lindstrom batted like .301 over his career in a low offense era at a low offense position, I don't see why he's such a bad pick)

[metsguy234]

So while that type of SABR methodology is exactly the kind of nonsense I'm looking for here, clearly those projections have fundamental problems in their "accuracy".

[200tang]

So while that type of SABR methodology is exactly the kind of nonsense I'm looking for here, clearly those projections have fundamental problems in their "accuracy".

k.

[metsguy234]

k.

Anyone who takes the time to actually read the thread and pays attention to the actual discussion here will realize not just how disingenuous you've been, but how deliberately duplicitous. So you made some egregious mistakes in what passes for 'logic' in your little corner of the world. Move on...

[HoustonGM]

WAR is one stat that I haven't taken the time to familiarize myself with yet so I'm not sure about any of that stuff.

Maybe he was one of those "you had to see him" type guys, that people who didn't watch him don't appreciate. Who knows?

It has nothing to do with having seen him play. He was the either the best or 2nd best defensive shortstop ever (Mark Belanger is his only competition) and provided roughly league average offense (once baserunning is accounted for). That's a great player.

(btw, Lindstrom batted like .301 over his career in a low offense era at a low offense position, I don't see why he's such a bad pick)

The late 1920s to mid 1930s were absolutely not a low offense era. The guy had 7 full seasons. With that short of a career, you need to be ridiculously good to be a HoFer. Freddie Lindstrom wasn't.

[Jeffy25]

So while that type of SABR methodology is exactly the kind of nonsense I'm looking for here, clearly those projections have fundamental problems in their "accuracy".

hahah lmfao

this and the quote before.

Seriously?

First of all, while Ozzie was just slightly below average with his bat, let alone that he did draw walks, stole a **** ton of bases, and was incredibly valuable on an offense that was built around speed, let's not forget how great he made everyone around him defensively.

Ozzie's speed was most valuable in the field. It isn't a player you had to see, he is widely regarded as one of the best shortstops ever defensively, and you don't have to see him play (even though, all of us older than you did) to see the numbers to see how amazing he was.

Ozzie played fundamentally smart, quickly, and was the driving force of the Cardinals for over a decade...a team that went to the World Series 3 times.

And to carry on the example, Ozzie had several throwing errors in his career that attribute that .978 fielding percentage, something that even of itself isn't bad for a shortstop, in fact, it's damn good. Do you want to devalue the guy that got an error because he reached a ball that another shortstop would have just watched go into left field?

Where is Mighty so he can be the only poster on this forum to agree with you?

[Jeffy25]

Anyone who takes the time to actually read the thread and pays attention to the actual discussion here will realize not just how disingenuous you've been, but how deliberately duplicitous. So you made some egregious mistakes in what passes for 'logic' in your little corner of the world. Move on...

put away the thesaurus, it makes you look even dumber.

[HoustonGM]

Jeffy, he's just quoting Mightyzug.