Most Undeserving Hall of Famer

[haveacigar]

i'd say Rabbit Maranville, if I had to pick.

Ozzie Smith isn't a hall of famer if you are just looking at his baseball-reference page, but if you know anything about baseball you'd recognize his brilliance.

there was a time when the veterans committee would just elect all of their teammates, which produced a lot of horrible HOF choices.

[robinhoodnik]

Who do you guys think it is?

I say Ozzie Smith. He was a liability at the plate (28 HR, .262 AVG in his CAREER). His fielding is highly overrated (only a .978 fielding percentage in his career!), and although he was a very good base stealer, his stolen base numbers are surely not legendary (580 SB career).

Why was this guy inducted? Because he can do backflips?

Simply put, You NEVER saw the Wizard play.

[robinhoodnik]

i'd say Rabbit Maranville, if I had to pick.

Ozzie Smith isn't a hall of famer if you are just looking at his baseball-reference page, but if you know anything about baseball you'd recognize his brilliance.

there was a time when the veterans committee would just elect all of their teammates, which produced a lot of horrible HOF choices.

From what I've read. Rabbit was worthy, another guy who's bagged on is King Kelly.

[HoustonGM]

Simply put, You NEVER saw the Wizard play.

I usually HATE that line when it comes to debates about players. I usually feel like it's just a cop out when the facts don't back up what you believe. And despite personally not having watching Ozzie play except on replays, I'd say that this is one of the few times where that "you never saw him" play is PERFECTLY applicable.

[oriole^]

I usually HATE that line when it comes to debates about players. I usually feel like it's just a cop out when the facts don't back up what you believe. And despite personally not having watching Ozzie play except on replays, I'd say that this is one of the few times where that "you never saw him" play is PERFECTLY applicable.

I'm with HoustonGM on this one, for a slightly different reason. Usually, that line is trotted out to mean, "he played in New York". (Pee Wee Reese, anyone? Face it, if he'd been playing with the Braves or the Pirates, he'd never have gotten into the Hall without buying a ticket first.)

The Wizard just did things that numbers don't show...and count me as one who believes that the Hall of Fame isn't reserved for numbers only. Otherwise, the first guy that gets in is Pete Rose...and he should never, ever, ever be elected. Period.

[robinhoodnik]

I usually HATE that line when it comes to debates about players. I usually feel like it's just a cop out when the facts don't back up what you believe. And despite personally not having watching Ozzie play except on replays, I'd say that this is one of the few times where that "you never saw him" play is PERFECTLY applicable.

Yes, during his prime he literally was THE highlight reel every other day. Plays that would have got wow's for other guys were mundane ritual for Ozzie. Just constant spectacular defense.

[dps]

Defense is every bit as important as offense, just no where near as flashy as offense.

Nor do the stats document defensive excellence as well as they do with offense.

As far as least deserving HoFer is concerned, I think I'd go with Marquard.

[RedsoxRockies]

Yeah, Pee Wee Reese and Phil Rizzuto were a bit underperforming.

[RickD]

When it comes to Phil Rizzuto you have to remember that when he retired his 1,217 career double plays ranked second in major league and he also ranked second among sortstops with his .968 career fielding average. He also ranked fifth in AL history in games at shortstop (1,647), eighth in putouts (3,219) and total chances (8,148), and ninth in assists (4,666).

He may look like he's undeserving now but if you have a guy who ranked 2nd today in major categories, was on 7 WS championships, won an MVP award, numerous all-star selections, etc and 5 years from now came up for the HOF you'd vote him in today. For the time Rizzuto was an HOF caliber player.

[RedsoxRockies]

But he should not have won the MVP, and World Series are a bad way to rate an individual, as are all star games. Many stars are elected even if they struggle. He won the MVP because he was a New Yorker. And the World Series were from the whole team.

[RickD]

More on Scooter:

In 1950, his MVP season, he hit .324 with 92 walks, and scored 125 runs. Rizzuto also handled 238 consecutive chances without an error that season, setting the record for shortstops. From September 18, 1949 through June 7, 1950, he played 58 games at shortstop without an error, breaking the AL record of 46 set by Eddie Joost in 1947-1948; the record stood until Ed Brinkman played error-free for 72 games in 1972. Rizzuto recorded 123 double plays in 1950, three more than Crosetti's total from 1938; it remains the Yankee record. Rizzuto's 1950 fielding percentage of .9817 led the league, and came within less than a point of Lou Boudreau's league record of .9824, set in 1947. Rizzuto's mark was a franchise record until 1976, when Yankees shortstop Fred Stanley posted a mark of .983.

Rizzuto was voted the American League's Most Valuable Player by a large margin in 1950, after having been the runner-up for the award behind Ted Williams in 1949. He became the only MVP in history who lead the league in sacrifice bunts. In 1950, he also won the Hickok Belt, awarded to the top professional athlete of the year, and was named Major League Player of the Year by The Sporting News. He was voted top major league shortstop by The Sporting News four consecutive years (1949-1952).

[chuckwillard]

One great season does not the Hall of Fame deserve. I think Scooter got in on the New York effect more than anything. Yes, he had 7 rings, but, as RSR pointed out, those are team accomplishments. What did he accomplish during those seven World Series?

He was a good player. He was probably an above average shortstop for his era. But I don't think he's any more deserving of induction than Johnny Pesky, Luis Aparicio, or other above average, but not truly outstanding, players.
Was he the best at his position ever? Certainly not.
Was he the best at his position in his era? Not in any clear-cut fashion over his entire career.
Was he the best player on his team? Certainly not.
Did his presence make his team significantly better? Hard to argue that it did on a team that stacked.
Did he make significant contributions to the game as a whole? Yes, but as a broadcaster, not a player.

Phil Rizzuto is a Hall of Fame broadcaster, there is no doubt of that. He was not a Hall of Fame shortstop.

[dps]

More on Scooter:

In 1950, his MVP season, he hit .324 with 92 walks, and scored 125 runs. Rizzuto also handled 238 consecutive chances without an error that season, setting the record for shortstops. From September 18, 1949 through June 7, 1950, he played 58 games at shortstop without an error, breaking the AL record of 46 set by Eddie Joost in 1947-1948; the record stood until Ed Brinkman played error-free for 72 games in 1972. Rizzuto recorded 123 double plays in 1950, three more than Crosetti's total from 1938; it remains the Yankee record. Rizzuto's 1950 fielding percentage of .9817 led the league, and came within less than a point of Lou Boudreau's league record of .9824, set in 1947. Rizzuto's mark was a franchise record until 1976, when Yankees shortstop Fred Stanley posted a mark of .983.

None of the other guys mentioned in this paragraph are in the Hall, so it's not that clear that this is that good of an argument for Rizzuto.

[RickD]

Yankees!

[chuckwillard]

Then induct Johnny Pesky! And Jim Rice! And just for the heck of it, Mo Vaughn, Jose Offerman, Rich Garces, and John Valentin.